Your IRL calendar

[duke_toaster]

Suzuka would sound like a good thing. However, with the increase in road courses one thing needs to be added - wets and inters for road courses and street circuits.

Re time limits : F1 is limited to two hours, and the timed CCWS races were around 1 hour 45, which is a sensible length for most races.

It will be interesting to see the new Indianapolis road course being used, although I'm not sure if it would be approprate for the IRL to run it.

[Purist]

IRL already has wets and such as they have run Watkins Glen in less than ideal conditions. The real question is, if IMSA GTPs could run Daytona in the wet with all the downforce they were making (and force they would be putting through the tires), why can't ovals be run in the wet now? And yes I know that's a roval IMSA used, but they still used basically all of the banking.

The longest road race on my calendar, Road America, would be a little over 280 miles. The other road course races (plus the airfield circuits) are ~225-250 miles per race.

Two to three hours for a road race is good; I've barely gotten into the rhythm of things by the time a Grand Prix is finishing (about an hour and a half for an F1 race), so one hour 45 or two hours just feels a bit too short. CART used to run their road races, including Cleveland, to 500k, and that used to be the minimum length of a Grand Prix (though that was some time ago). None of the raod races on the schedule I drew up are 500k, and the street races are only marginally longer than they historically have been.

[peckstar]

hey matt cat

whats the deal with dropping of Surfers, crowds of 100k plus not enough for you

[TilkeWannabe]

Jamie Whincup might be driving WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (In regeards to peckstar's signature) As a passionate Ford person, I find the whole idea DISGRACEFUL!!!!!!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Purist

Bob, how serious are you being? You do realize how much work would have to be done to Nelson Ledges, right? Also, if Rafaela has more than 10 degrees of banking, it would be bloody fast (2.871-mile oval); exactly how much banking does Rafaela have?

It called racing and fast, faster, fastest is what it is about.
Cheever lapped Indy at 236 to kill time. This is supposed to be top line pro sports, not SCCA regional.
Rafaela is relatively flat.

If "its too faaaast" is a real problem, time to turn out the lights and go home, it has become a farce and Switzerland has the right idea.

Even if the IRL introduces an exciting varied new formula, more than 15-18 races is all it will ever, at best, be able to manage year after year, and they had better be the same tracks for years on end.

[indycool]

Bob, safety-wise, fast CAN be too fast and rules makers have been slowing the Indy cars down since the early '70s and teams and manufacturers find ways to build the speed back up. It's been the way of racing for a long time.
It is what it is. Ask some of the drivers who were with CART at Texas.

That doesn't mean quit all racing like Switzerland. You go the fastest you can go under the rules. And no, we're never going to see 250 mph with these cars and if we don't, it doesn't mean that it's an SCCA regional.

I agree with your schedule stability comment. The max is probably going to be 20. It's going to be heavily North American, not running around all over the globe to book races. And, to the chagrin of road-racing fans, there are going to be ovals and there are going to be a significant number of them, IMO.

[Purist]

I already know that 25 events is certainly pushing things; I did say I was just going to have fun when I did my second schedule. However, only three races abroad and still 40 percent ovals didn't seem too off kilter. I find road racing more interesting, but that aside, having Texas, Homestead, Kentucky, Kansas, Chicagoland, and Nashville gets rather repetitive.

Bob, Switzerland lifted the ban in the last few years. And I suppose we know who to send as our attack dog when the insurance companies say, "No, that's too fast."

Hey, I want to see the Mulsanne without chicanes once again as much as anyone. I also know that if Indycars ever used Daytona they'd be restricted such that they'd be running in packs at ~230mph, instead of 250mph. This would actually make it much more likely that someone would get injured or worse, because the "big one" could be a lot more spectacular/dangerous than is the case with NASCAR.

Anyway, Bob, Rafaela would be half-assing it if you really want a fast oval. If you really want to go all-out, run Monza, and Montlhery without the chicanes.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Purist

Anyway, Bob, Rafaela would be half-assing it if you really want a fast oval. If you really want to go all-out, run Monza, and Montlhery without the chicanes.

Monza road course would be nce, but it makes no sense to go to europe which is far from in love with Indy cars.
The Monza, and Montlhery ovals are now both closed and not available for racing.

USAC ran Rafaela and Argentina does like open wheel races, they ran their own events at Rafaela for Argentine F-1 cars after USAC did not return.
Many like to mention the Triple Crown and Rafaela would be perfect to be part of a new one.
Indy, Pocono and Rafaela.

The insurance company panic is heard often but I have NEVER SEEN PROOF, beyond so and so said. It is just more chicken-littles flatulating through their key-board.

The its too fast--sky is falling, is paranoia.
Racers who can will.
Those who do not want to do it, as some BIG names have done at Indy, will not do it.

[Bob Riebe]

[QUOTE=mattcat]

1. Homestead-Miami - 200 laps
2. Phoenix
4. Texas - 200 laps
5. Indianapolis - 200 laps
6. Milwaukee
7. Cleveland -
8. Pocono - 200 laps
9. Road America
10. Nelson Ledges
11. Mosport -
12. Atlanta
13. Long Beach -
14. Mt. Tremblant
15. Virginia International Raceway -
16. Rafaela
17.. Road Atlanta
18. Michigan

[Purist]

It's an indirect causation issue with insurance; all it takes is one idiot filing a large lawsuit after being injured by debris, and any sanction/track that isn't under NASCAR or F1 would be screwed financially. Even if the suit fails, the legal costs could be murder.

If you're going to run twice in Ohio, let if be Cleveland and Mid Ohio. Nelson Ledges has some very nice corners and scenery, but I'd be concerned about what updates would be demanded, and Mid Ohio has more in the way of elevation changes. I'd also be concerned about the "safety updates" issue with VIR, Road Atlanta, and Mosport.

For a street race, Surfers Paradise is very good and draws well with the V8 Supercars, so that's a keeper, I would think. And I know this is a fantasy schedule thing, but if you include Australia, a Japanese round makes sense to split costs and make Honda happy.

Bob, why no Mexican round? I know we're thin on Mexican drivers right now, but it would be stupid to neglect that market. And it might make things a bit easier financially with your Argentinian round.

I'm fine with having a number of ovals, but I think they shouldn't make up more than half the schedule; this isn't NASCAR, and as I said, it's much easier to get repetitive with ovals.

[mountainstar]

Bob the obsession you've had for years with Rafaela I've never understood?

From what I've seen of it, it isn't anywhere near standard and is only used as a road course. I believe Top Race V6 is running there this year.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Bob the obsession you've had for years with Rafaela I've never understood?

From what I've seen of it, it isn't anywhere near standard and is only used as a road course. I believe Top Race V6 is running there this year.

I absolutely cannot fathom the obsession many have for a street course, an abomination as far as I am concerned.

The oval could be used if there was a reason to.
There are, or were, a few other oval south of the border that could be used if the IRL ever got serious about latin America.

It is a nice big oval like Indy, Pocono, the late Ontario are/were, a rare beast anywhere.
As I said before, Argentinians had a love for open wheel cars, and if it wold work anywhere, it would work there.

There used to be a site that had diagrams of tracks past and present, world-wide but it is gone now, as far as I know.

[duke_toaster]

There's a copy of RacingCircuits.net (how it was when it died in late 2005) here.

[Purist]

Which street circuit are you referring to, Bob. BTW, if you're referring to them in general, you have two of those "abominations" on your latest schedule.

Although quite a few street circuits have been rather slow/tight affairs, Toronto, Surfers Parasdies, St. Petersburg, and Long Beach are fairly open, and have long enough straights to facilitate decent overtaking opportunites. Edmonton and Cleveland more open as they're airfields, and Cleveland generally sees some of the best racing all season, oval or otherwise.

I liked CART for the variety of venues, and I'm still fine with having a number of ovals, but I find road racing more interesting/exciting in a number of ways. And with Indycars restricted as they are, it's has kind of backfired on them. On a given oval, you either don't see very many extended battles for position, or such battles are quite predictable; the cars are in the same relation ot one another at a given point on the track lap after laps for 20-30 laps, and if other cars come up behind, they follow in one of the two lines, and nobody can actually go anywhere. No one is able to make a decisive move for position. And I say two lines because we haven't seen three-line racing for position (except for the final run to the line) since 2001 or so. And unless they let these guys loose on the straights, while making them slow down noticeably in the turns on ovals, I don't see this problem ever getting fixed in a mainingful way.

Bob, as stuck ias you seem to think some are on street circuits, you seem just as intent on promoting your preference (ovals and Nelson Ledges it would seem at the moment).

[indycool]

Purist, there are far more passes on ovals than road courses. They were three-wide at Richmond, of all places, last night with Danica in the "sandwich", and they made it.

[Purist]

I don't have cable here, so I'll have to check YouTube for highlights. I had the video from Texas 2001 in mind when I made my three-wide comments.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Purist

Bob, as stuck ias you seem to think some are on street circuits, you seem just as intent on promoting your preference (ovals and Nelson Ledges it would seem at the moment).

For sure; as much as I dislike street courses one or can survive on history, or another quirk of racing or two.
I rarely watch racing on TV nowadays, and except for some well known races never did much, but ovals are a better package for those who do.
Ovals should dominate with about a third of road races for varieties sake.

Bob

[Purist]

That depends, Bob. The better road courses, and the airport circuits, probably give some of the ovals a run for their money on number of passes per race. Plus, with road courses, and the way Indycars a set up for ovals, it's more likely that one can make a decisive move for position, which can be quite spectacular. Also, there's more scope for overcooking it and having someone pull the crossover on you on corner exit. As for the tracks themselves, road courses are inherently more varied, and hence, more interesting, IMO of course. I might add that with the direction they're going with at least some ovals, I just don't find racing in parking lots that attractive (adding all that pavement at a number of ovals, which covers over so much area that used to be grass). Let's face it, the only decent car park circuits I can think of would be Washington DC, and perhaps the Meadowlands CART circuit.

Finally, I get kind of hacked off when oval races get messed up by rain. Sheesh, you can drive in the stuff in your road car, yet these machines that are supposed to be so advanced can't do something so simple and basic?! It was a roval, I know, but the IMSA GTPs, with up to 8,000-10,000 pounds of downforce at 200mph, ran Daytona rain or shine, and they found a way to MAKE the tires handle that kind of load on the Daytona banking.

[indycool]

The Meadowlands? You hafta be kidding. That's the place that was such a mess that Luyendyk went off a runoff area and couldn't find his way back to the course, went through the public parking lot, askled directions from a cop ands finally went back racing again. Sheesh.

[Purist]

All I really have to go on with the Meadowlands is a track diagram and a few photos, sheesh. I suppose I'll have to check YouTube for footage of that as well (if they have any). From the track diagram though, that looked like one of the most open/quick street circuit layouts I've seen. The issue you bring up is more a case of bad, or a complete lack of, marshalling than an inherent problem with the track.

[indycool]

PLEASE check.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by peckstar

hey matt cat

whats the deal with dropping of Surfers, crowds of 100k plus not enough for you

We will see if there is 100k when IRL shows up this year. Personally, I think crowds will be down. I'd be surprised if the IRL draws like champ car did.

[indycool]

With Power, Dixon and Briscoe on the grid, they're ALREADY playing that up in advance down there, so I disagree.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by indycool

With Power, Dixon and Briscoe on the grid, they're ALREADY playing that up in advance down there, so I disagree.

Yea, I didn't think of that. You might be right.

[jonm2]

Ive revised my IndyCar Calender in light of new rumours and reports.


Mexico City (road)
St Pete (street)
Motegi (oval)
Long beach (street)
Kansas (oval)
Indy (oval)
Milwaukee (oval)
Texas (oval)
Edmonton (road)
Iowa (oval)
Mid Ohio (road)
Toronto (street)
Infineon (road)
Richmond (oval)
New Hampshire (oval)
Detroit (street)
Chicagoland (oval)
Surfers Paradise (street)
Las Vegas (oval)