The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by bauble

Oh! Dear, all of us who voted to leave the EU have a corner of Hell reserved for us! Mr Tusk has said so,

I assumed he was talking about our politicians that ‘had backed brexit without even a sketch of a plan’, but whatever, he made his point! It will be interesting to see what happens when he meets with Mrs May today. Maybe she’s packed boxing gloves......

[Peter Mallett]

There are a couple of ways of looking at those comments though. The first may be that it is childish and desperate; the second is that he really has no clue what the general EU populace think of him and his fellow technocrats. I suspect it is a combination of the two since the remain camp has never actually enunciated why we should stay.

Recognizing personal interests and the convenience for us proles of the free movement etc. I still see no earthly national or indeed overall business reason to stay in it.

Some may suggest the the unified rules are a good thing but that also suggests that standards aren't just as good elsewhere, which frankly is so last century.

[midgetman]

The thing is - he's not wrong is he?

Whatever one's thoughts on the nation's decision, no-one can say that the negotiations have been anything other than a total fiasco. The talismanic leaders disappeared like the morning mist as soon as the referendum was done, leaving Thames Valley's second most famous resident (after our own globetrotting talisman) to do what she voted against.

IF those great orators had a concrete plan, they aren't in the vanguard of carrying it out. The public believed they could lead us to the Sunlit Uplands, quite clearly they can't get out of the Slough of Despond.

It's a mess. We've been walked over by the EU, we had no decent negotiating team, and we're left with a dreadful political situation where the awful Corbyn is looking attractive to a large swathe of the population. And all because those who campaigned for leaving didn't have a plan. I firmly believe we've been let down, in which case the Hated Tusk isn't far wrong.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by midgetman

The thing is - he's not wrong is he?

Whatever one's thoughts on the nation's decision, no-one can say that the negotiations have been anything other than a total fiasco. The talismanic leaders disappeared like the morning mist as soon as the referendum was done, leaving Thames Valley's second most famous resident (after our own globetrotting talisman) to do what she voted against.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Exactly, it's really easy to see why he (and loads of others) are so frustrated, they've got that woman coming to visit again and when they ask her what do you want she will say "I don't know" yet again.

[Peter Mallett]

He's not wrong but he's using emotive words rather than being sensible. Which unless one is a blind disciple is clearly not useful. You'd think he would try to seek a moral high ground. Instead he's stooped to name calling.

Yes this is a muddle. No it is not a mess.

And still I don't hear anyone telling me why it's good to stay just people hurling insults at a democratic vote.

[midgetman]

Strewth I'd hate to see your idea of a mess then. Consider the evidence:

Can't work out whether we're in, out or shake it all about
A government so bad that even Jeremy Corbyn and his Trotskyist backers seem a sensible alternative to many people
A lame duck PM who has promised she won't lead the party into the next election in just three years time
Hence the Conservative party is all about lobbying for the top job, which is why MPs are sounding off all over the place
There's no direction as to how we will operate in just two months time
Lurid press stories about shortages, martial law, civil disobedience all raising the rabble

And to top it all off the gearbox in my Volvo has broken. I blame Brexit, it wouldn't have failed if that nice Mr Juncker had still been in charge. (Well it's fashionable to blame everything else on Brexit)

I'd call that a mess. Nothing to do with the decision, all to do with the appalling handling post June 2016.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Peter Mallett]

Yes but, it's unlikely to get worse. A middle yes.vecauae people know what they want and how to deliver it but they are being told they shouldn't do it.

Technically there is nothing in the way of pulling the plug. So A muddle it is.

Agree the politicians including a lame duck PM have conspired to mess it up but on 29th March, unless there is an extension, we have to leave. Very similar to what.happens in many parts of the world where circumstances dictate the result rather than the people in charge.

As to the drop dead date itself why can't people see that the backdrop thing should have a drop dead date too. It's perfectly normal business. Trouble is Civil Sercants don't understand these concepts.

[bauble]

A muddle or even a middle (sic) anything must be better than being sucked ever deeper into the EU morass, a sinkhole of mis-management, corruption, greed, scandal, ineptitude,self interested bureaucrats, and glory hunting politicos. Too many people riding the gravy train, too many snouts in the trough, and far too many people trying to justify their existence by dreaming up ever more time wasting and unnecessary regulations.

I voted to leave the EU, and for mothing else, I do not expect to be held to ransom by six awkward bog trotters, or insulted by a foreigners, or the decision of the majority to be thwarted by the very people to whom we gave the job.

Talk of Civil Unrest is not far wide of the mark, for as a peace loving OAP I feel like taking up arms (banners) and invading parliament. To, (Mr Tusk's) hell to all of them.

Remainers are basically selfish, considering their own circumstances rather than the common good, any one here who feels insulted is free to take umbrage.

A further thought; If we get Corbyn we also get Diane Abbott. Hell is looking more attractive every day.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by bauble

I do not expect to be held to ransom by six awkward bog trotters, or insulted by a foreigners,

why are you so fussy about foreigners insulting you when most of us here, some not completely British, insult you daily?

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

why are you so fussy about foreigners insulting you when most of us here, some not completely British, insult you daily?

Well Tim, I get a better class of insult here!

[midgetman]

And there you go insulting bog trotters.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Strewth I'd hate to see your idea of a mess then. Consider the evidence:
Can't work out whether we're in, out or shake it all about
A government so bad that even Jeremy Corbyn and his Trotskyist backers seem a sensible alternative to many people
A lame duck PM who has promised she won't lead the party into the next election in just three years time
Hence the Conservative party is all about lobbying for the top job, which is why MPs are sounding off all over the place
There's no direction as to how we will operate in just two months time
Lurid press stories about shortages, martial law, civil disobedience all raising the rabble
And to top it all off the gearbox in my Volvo has broken. I blame Brexit, it wouldn't have failed if that nice Mr Juncker had still been in charge. (Well it's fashionable to blame everything else on Brexit)
I'd call that a mess. Nothing to do with the decision, all to do with the appalling handling post June 2016.

A bit harsh, Max but some valid points.
A lot of the problem is that the remainers are doing everything they can to overturn the wish of the majority. Perhaps they should now accept what is going to happen and at the very least be neutral rather than obstructive. The main problem to me is that there has been no precedence to this action, no template from what happened previously to help avoid the pitfalls. None of us leavers, remainers or the rest of the EU have been here before. Certainly the next country to leave will have it easier. As PM says it's more a muddle than a mess.
If Corbyn seems a better alternative then heaven help us all and even he has been a critic of the EU. Mrs May has been ineffective but what should we expect from a remainer when Johnson, Gove and all the senior leavers back pedalled after the result was announced (even Farrage stood down from his shambolic party) leaving no senior leavers to take up the challenge. They are the ones who really let us down.
As to the press stories - who cares? The press, as a group, hardly inspire as a beacon of shining morality.

[Lancsbreaker]

I think saying that Labour are looking attractive to a large swathe of people is more a reflection that for a large chunk of the population tradition and completely unthinking political affiliation mean they could never vote other than Labour - and yet the (obviously fallible) opinion polls have Labour running some 6-8 points behind the Conservatives - amazing under the circumstances. Anecdotally I know several former Labour voters who despite themselves cannot contemplate voting for Corbyn under any circumstances.......joining many of us, I surmise, who feel that no political party represents or reflects our views. I've never voted Con or Lab in my life, but cannot vote Lib now as they are a complete shambles whose aims have drifted from my outlook, and are equally led by a never-has-been.



Brexit negotiations should have been delegated from the start to a cross-party team sourced from the Leave campaigners, rather than allowing it to become a party-political football.....but that would have been too sensible...

[midgetman]

You're saying I'm being harsh but you all agree with me.....

Will it be The Birthday Honours that the first gong for Services to Brexit gets handed out? Or will they wait until New Year?

You all back up my point that the charismatic vote winners all ran away as soon as possible, almost as if they saw a magic chance for self-aggrandisement but didn't have any idea what to do....

A special place in hell should indeed be reserved for them. We *are* in a mess no matter what anyone says; what could have been Britain taking the lead has ended up with us on the back foot, crawling round Europe looking for friends. If only we'd had a plan. "If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail" has never been better highlighted.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Brexit negotiations should have been delegated from the start to a cross-party team sourced from the Leave campaigners, rather than allowing it to become a party-political football.....but that would have been too sensible...

Brexit was handed to the Brexiteer trio of David Davis, Liam Fox and Johnson. I don't think that all the blame should be heaped on Mrs May who appears to have been doing all the heavy lifting behind the scenes whilst the aforementioned trio slept on the job.

As for Fox, what a waste of space. Claimed that signing up 40 trade deals would be completed before 30th March 2019, to date - 6 weeks away - there isn't even one Letter of Intent, let alone any finalised deal!

[gary396]

The UK has signed a new trade continuity agreement with the Faroe Islands.

Sorted!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by gary396

The UK has signed a new trade continuity agreement with the Faroe Islands.

Sorted!

Can't tell you what a relief that is!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Can't tell you what a relief that is!

It probably is ………… to the Faroe Islands.

[Tim Falce]

For Mike Bell and others, the trailer registration section on the .Gov website is up and running now, in so much as you leave your email address and they'll get back to you.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

For Mike Bell and others, the trailer registration section on the .Gov website is up and running now, in so much as you leave your email address and they'll get back to you.

I've done that and they haven't yet!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Brexit was handed to the Brexiteer trio of David Davis, Liam Fox and Johnson. I don't think that all the blame should be heaped on Mrs May who appears to have been doing all the heavy lifting behind the scenes whilst the aforementioned trio slept on the job.

As for Fox, what a waste of space. Claimed that signing up 40 trade deals would be completed before 30th March 2019, to date - 6 weeks away - there isn't even one Letter of Intent, let alone any finalised deal!

My point exactly. A pox on ALL their houses!

[Peter Mallett]

But you all miss the vital point. Politicians will do nothing for you which is why businesses are doing the work.

Whether they are for or against you can bet your life that they are already planning for no deal. You don't need a politically engineered trade deal to do business. Just a scent lawyer and a contract.

[Gerard C]

After Donald, it seems Italy is giving a well deserved lesson to our gov'… Guess what, they dont like it! Ha bon, de quoi se mêlent-ils les Transalpins? And they are talking about migrants and african colonies now. "Total" misunderstanding or what? The most used word about the former gov' was "amateur", this one is doing better and could be rated as "very much amateur"! A kind of improvement…

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

After Donald, it seems Italy is giving a well deserved lesson to our gov'… Guess what, they dont like it! Ha bon, de quoi se mêlent-ils les Transalpins? And they are talking about migrants and african colonies now. "Total" misunderstanding or what? The most used word about the former gov' was "amateur", this one is doing better and could be rated as "very much amateur"! A kind of improvement…

African colonies? What, Paris?

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

African colonies? What, Paris?

No, Marseille first!!!