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Old 23 Oct 2003, 14:55 (Ref:760868)   #76
Jeremy Jackson
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Thanks for the info, Kojima_KE007, the title doesn't ring any bells to me, but an Elva website gives it's ISBM as ISBN 4-544-04215-1. Don't know when it was published. Written by Shigemi Kanda, who's done some Lotus books. Michael?
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 15:36 (Ref:760901)   #77
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
In one of the e-mails, I did query whether round 2 was on 4/6 or 6/4, when I mentioned those numbers on a photo of Takhara's Lola...Presume that was a event preview photo.

The book is news to me, though it would be useful to know what other good information it contains.
Yes, I remember that now

Although how it could be an event preview photo when the car doesn't appear to have even run by then, I'm not sure Maybe this is retrospective text added by the owner of the website I procured the photo from...

Thanx for info about the book. Sorry, the name doesn't ring a bell, but then quite a lot of people have written books about Lotus and I only have a relatively small proportion of those!

Michael
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 15:52 (Ref:760921)   #78
Jeremy Jackson
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Quote:
Although how it could be an event preview photo when the car doesn't appear to have even run by then, I'm not sure
Er, yes, I see what you mean!
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Old 27 Oct 2003, 17:13 (Ref:764754)   #79
Kojima_KE007
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I now have the details of the book.

It is the Vol. 15 of Car Graphic Liblary series, "Sekai No Jidousha (Cars of the world)" Cooper/Lola/Elva, published by Nigensha, written by Shigemi Kanta.

This is exactly what it say on the book; Lola T280/3 Cosworth DFV, 30th March 1972, Colour: White, Noritake Takahara.

We think they just translated the delivery sheet of Lola cars.
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Old 28 Oct 2003, 18:09 (Ref:765980)   #80
Alain HACHE
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KOJIMA
thanks again for infos , is it possible for you to find in the book the same infos for others T280 ? ( chassis number , date , colour and owner )
best regards
Alain
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Old 30 Oct 2003, 19:54 (Ref:768405)   #81
Kojima_KE007
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Alain

Unfortunately, the book has informations on Japanese related cars only.

Sorry I couldn't help you with other cars.

Best regards,
Kojima_KE007
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Old 1 Nov 2003, 22:12 (Ref:770365)   #82
Alain HACHE
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thanks Kojima for answer
if you search infos about something in France I can help OK ?
AHACHE@wanadoo.fr
best regards
alain
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Old 4 Nov 2003, 19:30 (Ref:773005)   #83
Alain HACHE
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Whats happen in 1973 Spa 1000 Kms for the T282 Filipinetti
during practice ? was the car rebuilded ?
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Old 4 Nov 2003, 20:02 (Ref:773032)   #84
Jeremy Jackson
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Alain, the car was crashed heavily in practice at Spa after a left rear suspension falure. According to Autosport, the car would have been withdrawn anyway, after the death of George Filipinetti. The car was rebuilt in time for Le Mans
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Old 8 Dec 2003, 21:56 (Ref:806992)   #85
Kojima_KE007
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Which chassis is in Rosso Bianco in Germany? Is that chassis number 01 or 02, do we know exactly which chassis Bonnier was in when he was killed at Le Mans in 1972 and how many T280s were produced in total?

In my opinion, whichever chassis that Bonnier was "not" killed in would automatically become the chassis that is in Rosso Bianco.
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Old 8 Dec 2003, 22:26 (Ref:807013)   #86
Jeremy Jackson
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Kojima,

2 of those questions started this thread! The one photo I've seen of the Rosso Bianco T280 has neither original rear bodywork, nor is in "period" colours. From the photo I've seen, it may even be the ex-Mallock/Zaborowski car mentioned earlier (chassis 4?).

Since we've "sort of" concluded that there were at least 4 chassis earlier in the thread, I don't think we can say it is automatically anything. I can't read the information board next to the car on the photo I've got, but it doesn't seem to say too much!
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Old 8 Dec 2003, 23:58 (Ref:807062)   #87
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Jeremy

Thanks for the reply and sorry to ask the same questions again, but as we looked into the history of Lola T280 and the more contacts we made, we became more confused.

Has Rosso Bianco ever confirmed or published which chassis their T280 is and does anybody have a picture of it?

There also is a person suspecting that chassis 04 is somewhere in Italy. Does anybody know anything about this at all?
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 00:27 (Ref:807077)   #88
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Kojima,

No need to apologize, it wasn't a criticism! We've ended up asking a lot of questions in this thread, so it's understandable. Michael did a summary on page 3 of this:

"So we have the following:

HU01 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU02 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU03 - Noritake Takahara (Mar 72)
HU04 - Carlos Gaspar (c. Jun 72)

HU01 goes to Rouveyran at end of 72 then ? (Willy Widar?) (Swedish guy Alain mentioned)
HU02 was written off Le Mans 72
HU03 stays in Japan and is still there
HU04 goes back to Ecurie Bonnier (hence ex-BIP references in race reports) then to Lord, then Zaborowski, Malcolm Johnstone, Brian & David Auger (hence reference to HU04), then Geoffrey Marsh/Marsh Plant and then ? (Rosso Bianco?)"


As far as I know, Rosso Bianco website doesn't detail the exhibits, and I've not seen any information about this car. There is a photo here:

http://www.shmoo.com/~bmc/photos/Car...m/dscf0070.jpg

, and it doesn't look in very good condition. However, it does have the additonal rear wing that the Marsh car had in 1983 (Not much to go on, I know!), and is painted light blue, and red down the centre. The board next to it says Lola T280 1972 2993cc V8... In smaller print it says "Only x of this racing car for Group 5 have been built". Unfortunately from the photo, I can't make out the number. The "x" could be a 5 or 9 (Which would include T282-4-6 variants, but we know HU10 exists), but the number looks different to the 5 in the "Group 5" lettering. If you can decipher from the photo, it may help...

Since we aren't 100% on chassis numbering, what can you tell us about 04 in Italy?

Last edited by Jeremy Jackson; 9 Dec 2003 at 00:28.
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 09:55 (Ref:807325)   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Kojima,

No need to apologize, it wasn't a criticism! We've ended up asking a lot of questions in this thread, so it's understandable. Michael did a summary on page 3 of this:

"So we have the following:

HU01 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU02 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU03 - Noritake Takahara (Mar 72)
HU04 - Carlos Gaspar (c. Jun 72)

HU01 goes to Rouveyran at end of 72 then ? (Willy Widar?) (Swedish guy Alain mentioned)
HU02 was written off Le Mans 72
HU03 stays in Japan and is still there
HU04 goes back to Ecurie Bonnier (hence ex-BIP references in race reports) then to Lord, then Zaborowski, Malcolm Johnstone, Brian & David Auger (hence reference to HU04), then Geoffrey Marsh/Marsh Plant and then ? (Rosso Bianco?)"


As far as I know, Rosso Bianco website doesn't detail the exhibits, and I've not seen any information about this car. There is a photo here:

http://www.shmoo.com/~bmc/photos/Car...m/dscf0070.jpg

, and it doesn't look in very good condition. However, it does have the additonal rear wing that the Marsh car had in 1983 (Not much to go on, I know!), and is painted light blue, and red down the centre. The board next to it says Lola T280 1972 2993cc V8... In smaller print it says "Only x of this racing car for Group 5 have been built". Unfortunately from the photo, I can't make out the number. The "x" could be a 5 or 9 (Which would include T282-4-6 variants, but we know HU10 exists), but the number looks different to the 5 in the "Group 5" lettering. If you can decipher from the photo, it may help...

Since we aren't 100% on chassis numbering, what can you tell us about 04 in Italy?
Jeremy

Thanks for the photo of the car in Rosso Bianco. I'd never seen one and was beginning to wonder if a photo of the car actually existed. I was getting to the point where I was going to suggest organising a TNF/Ten-Tenths trip to the museum to get my own photo!!!

I agree with you about the rear wing being an indicator that it is the Marsh Plant car but in fact I'd say there were a lot of other similarities with that car:

1) The front splitter added to the nose (only car I've seen this feature on)
2) The additional centre rear view mirror
3) The enlarged air ducts on the side of the car
4) The absence of the filled-in bodywork at the rear of the car
5) The removed centre section of the cockpit between driver and passenger seat (done at the Interserie Silverstone 74, according to Jeremy Lord)

I know that none of these on their own would be very conclusive, but put together, with the rear wing, I think it is 'highly probable' that the car in Rosso Bianco is the ex-Marsh Plant one. Now we believe this to be 04, don't we? But it would be interesting to here what Kojima has to say about Italy...also given the fact that we believe it has some Italian history via Jolly Club.

The car that has been really bothering me is the Ulf Broman one - it just doesn't seem to fit in. It doesn't have the filled in rear bodywork (although I suppose whoever rebuilt it could have put a new rear body section on the car - maybe from a 2-litre?) You will notice that his car also has the centre section of the cockpit cut away but it appears to have been done even more further forward than the Lord/Marsh Plant car! I don't suppose you have any idea when that photo might have been taken, even roughly, as that might help?

However, I think I have just discovered one thing which identifies the Broman car as 01 - the roll-over bar/hoop. If you look at the photo of the Rouveyran car from Le Mans 73, you will see that the diagonal hoop that goes from bottom left to top right, starting from behind the driver's neck, is welded to the other diagonal tube running from top left to bottom right, rather than being joined to the main hoop as it is on all the other cars. You can see this again on the photo of Casoni's car in the Rothmans 50,000. On the Lord car the diagonal tube running from behind the driver meets the main hoop and is not welded to the other diagonal tube at all, while with the Takahara car it always had the original design of roll hoop, again with the diagonal tube being welded to the top tube.

I can't claim this is all my own work, as Alain Hache was hinting that there were subtle differences in the roll-over bar/hoop a long time ago earlier in this thread, I just didn't look hard enough then!

Anyway, I'm going to be bold and I've moved the Broman car from my 'Unknown' folder in my Lola T280 photos directory into HU01!!! Any thoughts?

Cheers

Michael
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 10:29 (Ref:807347)   #90
Jeremy Jackson
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Michael,

The Rosso Bianco photo was posted on the net in early December, the comment being that the guy had just come back from his "last visit to Germany", but I don't know when the photo was actually taken.

I noticed the splitter and the open-ended rear bodywork, so it seemed likely that it was the Marsh car. I issed the cockpit mirror details though!

However, I don't know when the Broman photo was taken. I assumed it was taken some time ago?

Now about this Italian car...
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