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Old 4 May 2008, 23:31 (Ref:2194066)   #51
D.R.T.
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by indycool
300,000 and millions. Contrary to what some would like to believe, CART and CC didn't hurt the "500" much at all attendance-wise, although TV ratings DID go down, but not out of the "millions."
Attendance is still impressive, but the decline in the demand and eagerness to get 500 tickets, along with qualifying attendance has diminished significantly.

Whether it was CC or the IRL's fault, the result is the same.

As with tv figures, the numbers dont lie, its depressing.

2008 hopefully is the first step to a better future.

Whether that involves option tyres or not, Indycool.
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Old 4 May 2008, 23:48 (Ref:2194074)   #52
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Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!
If something is spec, then it decreases appeal for this spectator. It isn't a factor that would make me not watch something, but it can easily make the difference between me having a "fanatic" type interest as compared to "interested-enough-to-tune-in-for-the-races".

This distinction means the difference between 100%-certainly-seeing-every-event (combined with close following of the out-of-race details) and seeing-the-vast-majority-of-events (combined with far less intense following of the the out-of-race details). If my TV was hooked up to one of these viewing-habit gizmos, then spec or not would likely have minimal impact on my addition to viewing figures. There would, however, be a significant difference in my dedication (my long-term consumer stability, or something).

Last edited by Dutton; 4 May 2008 at 23:55.
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Old 5 May 2008, 01:09 (Ref:2194099)   #53
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Originally Posted by indycool
Sure hasn't looked like an SCCA race all these years to me and I'm on my 50th one.
I have seen some incredible SCCA spec. formula races, and it is a lot cheaper.
YOU miss the point.
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Old 5 May 2008, 04:12 (Ref:2194141)   #54
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The argument about the IRL being a 'spec' formula is rubbish.
It was never a spec formula.

What happened is that intially there were several manufacturers (Honda, Toyota, GM) involved and up to three chassis manufacturers.

Lola got turned down but G force and Dallara were both involved. Initially constructors were not that interested. Tony then restricted the chassis to two or three (remember Kranefuss) which was when Lola were turned down (because they were also with Champcar?).
The Panoz did not remain competitive with the Dallara so everyone went to Dallara-maybe ugly, but effective. The engine manufacturers lost interest and in the end Tony had to beg Honda to remain involved....

Its not the rules but the failure of the series (and the battle between IRL & Champcar) to maintain enough public interest in the series to justify major manufacturer involvement...

Until that changes and manufacturers CHOOSE to want to come on board the series will remain looking like a 'spec' series...
No one but Dallara builds a competitive car. Tony may have since mandated the Dallara but that was practically formalising what already existed because economically the possibility of Ganassi or Penske building their own car and NOT selling it to others could have killed what little interest there was in the series...

Now the rebuilding process begins, but do not kid yourself you will get a huge turn around in public interest because you have a couple of competing manufacturers...
Don't put the cart before the horse....
The series has to build real public interest before it will attract the interest of several manufacturers...
Imagine opening it up and have penske do what he did with mercedes a decade or two ago.... The loop hole was closed because it would have been destructive to the Indy 500...
It was then and it would be right now...

Last edited by Teretonga; 5 May 2008 at 04:17.
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Old 5 May 2008, 15:15 (Ref:2194450)   #55
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indycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridindycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bob, qualifying attendance has been "down" longer than the split simply because there were no more milestones to be reached, like 150, 200, etc. The last few years, its' been up. Carb Day is WAY up since they moved it from Thursday to Friday.

And I see a lot of "spec" in NASCAR. Those of us on forums tend to be superfans and look at every little technical thing involved. We are different than the general public, which, as Olive says, pays attention to the drivers. Those of us on the forums are a very small minority of the number of people it takes to reach for this to be successful. I know fans who go to Indianapolis who wouldn't know a 2007 Dallara from an '86 March and enjoy themselves every year. I've not only not heard them say, "oh that airbox is ugly," I've never heard them use the TERM airbox.

The Indianapolis 500 and national championship series has gone through a lot of cycles and will continue to. in the future. We happen to be on the planet in this one.
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Old 5 May 2008, 15:15 (Ref:2194451)   #56
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indycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridindycool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bob, qualifying attendance has been "down" longer than the split simply because there were no more milestones to be reached, like 150, 200, etc. The last few years, its' been up. Carb Day is WAY up since they moved it from Thursday to Friday.

And I see a lot of "spec" in NASCAR. Those of us on forums tend to be superfans and look at every little technical thing involved. We are different than the general public, which, as Olive says, pays attention to the drivers. Those of us on the forums are a very small minority of the number of people it takes to reach for this to be successful. I know fans who go to Indianapolis who wouldn't know a 2007 Dallara from an '86 March and enjoy themselves every year. I've not only not heard them say, "oh that airbox is ugly," I've never heard them use the TERM airbox.

The Indianapolis 500 and national championship series has gone through a lot of cycles and will continue to. in the future. We happen to be on the planet in this one.
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Old 5 May 2008, 23:52 (Ref:2194766)   #57
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QUOTE=indycool]Bob, qualifying attendance has been "down" longer than the split simply because there were no more milestones to be reached, like 150, 200, etc. The last few years, its' been up. Carb Day is WAY up since they moved it from Thursday to Friday.That is your opinion. Indy Veterans on other forums, some of whom have been there, or even had connections for decades say the variety that brought many in just to see what showed up totally disappeared in the last five to eight years so there is no reaso to go for anything but the race.

And I see a lot of "spec" in NASCAR.The France boy in charge was going to use a generic engine, Detroit officials told him--you do we are gone. The engine of tomorrow is now on hold. Those of us on forums tend to be superfans and look at every little technical thing involved. We are different than the general public, which, as Olive says, pays attention to the drivers.He is wrong, and in a tiny minority. If type of engine did not matter, Ford and Mopar would not have spent time on engines just for sprint cars, and those fans are more driver followers than any other series. Those of us on the forums are a very small minority of the number of people it takes to reach for this to be successful. I know fans who go to Indianapolis who wouldn't know a 2007 Dallara from an '86 March and enjoy themselves every year. I've not only not heard them say, "oh that airbox is ugly," I've never heard them use the TERM airbox.

The Indianapolis 500 and national championship series has gone through a lot of cycles and will continue to. in the future. We happen to be on the planet in this one.[/QUOTE]
I have no faith that Mr. George cannot make it worse than it already is. What happened to the Copper World Classic the biggest and most spectacular outlaw race in the world could easily happen to Indy as long as TG is in charge..
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Old 6 May 2008, 15:16 (Ref:2195293)   #58
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For what it is worth, a gentleman on another forum, who is at the track, said the atmosphere in the paddock is far more upbeat than it has been the past few years.
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Old 7 May 2008, 22:09 (Ref:2196435)   #59
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Originally Posted by Gernith
Did/does the IRL have an overtake button? (push to pass/power to pass)

I thought it was kind of an arcade game type gimmick at first, but I really grew to like it!
To answer the original question, the answer is actually YES despite what everybody else has said.

Its not a big deal really, all it does is run the engine on the max power 'full rich' setting - which is the same as setting the fuel trim knob to 'full rich' ( which most people run nearly all the time anyway ). So if you are cruising around with the mixture leaned out to save fuel, you can press the Overtake button to briefly go full rich if an overtaking opportunity arises rather than have to rotate the mixture knob back to the full rich setting.
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Old 11 May 2008, 20:45 (Ref:2199249)   #60
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hsaabedra should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I find it funny that Robin Miller forgot about that button while he waxed nostalgic over the Panoz being essentially mothballed in one of his online SPEED columns. I believe use of the button is highly discouraged since the idea now is to reduce costs related to engine reconditioning, though I believe it is still available to drivers.

My hope is they go back to using turbochargers since the current engine sounds absolutely horrid at full song.
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Old 12 May 2008, 12:23 (Ref:2200045)   #61
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Valenok should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think, the one thing TG need to do - restore old CART 1995. Now we have only one main american open wheel serie, and there is no reasons to avoid old Champcars things, like old-style chassi and turbochargered engines. I'd like to see more 500-miles races and new battle for Triple Crown)
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