Take a 2019 Tea Break with Delta

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Sooo, a new PM! Why am I completely and utterly underwhelmed.......

OK, I'll admit my stupidity here: It wasn't until I'd read other peoples reaction to your comment that I realised that you weren't completely & utterly underwhelmed about receiving a new Private Message Mike!

[Willmaz223]

Nice little trip to the local and War and Peace show today with my bro.

Having not gone in about 8 years it was sad to see how the event in scale and diversity has gone down hill.

Still great to go though and getting in for free was good.

Would post some pics but they're all on my brothers 'no go' camera

[The Fat Clerk]

Interesting Javelin trackday happening with a 50-50 split between road & race cars. The 2 fastest cars out by quite a long way are both road going - a Panamera and a Nissan GTR.
Older road cars include an Elan, a Chimera, a MGA, and what started out very loudly an AC Cobra.

The race cars were led by 9 C1's joined by 2 Clubmen. a Fun Cup Beetle and an assorted of Caterham's, MX5's and Saxo's.

[andy97]

[QUOTE=The Fat Clerk;3919413]Interesting Javelin trackday happening with a 50-50 split between road & race cars. The 2 fastest cars out by quite a long way are both road going - a Panamera and a Nissan GTR..[/

Until their brakes run out!

[The Fat Clerk]

Until their brakes run out![/QUOTE]

Funny you should say that, the Porsche actually had smoke coming from the front wheels at one point and went home @ lunchtime, leaving the afternoon to be very evenly matched with road going BMW's & a Caymen on a par with a Saxo and a couple of race MX 5's. As ever the C1's were slow but entertaining.

[Willmaz223]

At last a breakthrough in the Kart me and my dad are mini restoring. Blooming pistons.

Lathes can come in very handy...

[grantp]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Funny you should say that, the Porsche actually had smoke coming from the front wheels at one point and went home @ lunchtime, leaving the afternoon to be very evenly matched with road going BMW's & a Caymen on a par with a Saxo and a couple of race MX 5's. As ever the C1's were slow but entertaining.

I once saw a quite new (Demonstrator?) front engined 4 seat Ferrari get to that point in 3 laps of the original Donington National layout. A lot of smoke coming from all four wheels.

[Peter Mallett]

Teslas. Or just Tesla. As I said on the Silverstone Classic thread, we used the Tesla service to get from the Wing to the National Paddocks and back again. And very comfortable they were.

As one does, I asked the drivers to tell me about Teslas and what they thought. It soon became clear that what I was doing was talking to the motorized version of an Apple fan. Tesla has worked out that by building an infrastructure of fast or "super" charging locations, no more than 60 miles apart in any direction, they can not only guarantee (as long as there is electricity) a completed journey, they can ensure that they know exactly where every Tesla (whatever model) is and what it is doing; and indeed, where it is going.

That, my friends is the scary bit.

However as a vehicle for traveling between A and B I love it. The Tesla S performance, in "Ludicrous Mode" can achieve 0-60 MPH in 2.4 secs! It'll take your face off! Ok you have to pay £95k but who cares when you can get your own street legal dragster?

I don't buy the green thing, simply because you have to dig the battery ingredients out of the ground and funnily enough (or not) a bunch of Brazillian miners died last year working on one of those mines.

Again though, none of the drivers mentioned green issues in the trips we took. One of them told us he'd driven to Spain and much of the drive had been self steering (by the car).

So, I love the idea but will never go for the green tag for reasons stated above. If this is the future then I suggest BMW, Ford and Jaguar start looking at the infrastructure before going too far with the vehicles.

But would I buy an S? Yes.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But would I buy an S? Yes.

And fit a tow bar to get the "B" back and forth to races?


As I understand it they don't need the charger system to know where the car is and what it is (and has been) doing.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by grantp

And fit a tow bar to get the "B" back and forth to races?

As I understand it they don't need the charger system to know where the car is and what it is (and has been) doing.

Your phone provider collects more data on your movements than Tesla does it’s owners.... And the latter can opt out!

And as for tow bar, this is us at Brands two years ago, when Tesla UK fitted a tow bar to one of the first Model X versions to be imported so that Simon could see how it coped with his loaded Dastle race box. The answer- range was affected by the same amount as a diesel 4x4’s would be, but performance was less affected......

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Your phone provider collects more data on your movements than Tesla does it’s owners.... And the latter can opt out!

Yes, I agree it was more a comment rather than suggesting anything really sinister.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Teslas. Or just Tesla. As I said on the Silverstone Classic thread, we used the Tesla service to get from the Wing to the National Paddocks and back again. And very comfortable they were.

As one does, I asked the drivers to tell me about Teslas and what they thought. It soon became clear that what I was doing was talking to the motorized version of an Apple fan. Tesla has worked out that by building an infrastructure of fast or "super" charging locations, no more than 60 miles apart in any direction, they can not only guarantee (as long as there is electricity) a completed journey, they can ensure that they know exactly where every Tesla (whatever model) is and what it is doing; and indeed, where it is going.

That, my friends is the scary bit.

However as a vehicle for traveling between A and B I love it. The Tesla S performance, in "Ludicrous Mode" can achieve 0-60 MPH in 2.4 secs! It'll take your face off! Ok you have to pay £95k but who cares when you can get your own street legal dragster?

I don't buy the green thing, simply because you have to dig the battery ingredients out of the ground and funnily enough (or not) a bunch of Brazillian miners died last year working on one of those mines.

Again though, none of the drivers mentioned green issues in the trips we took. One of them told us he'd driven to Spain and much of the drive had been self steering (by the car).

So, I love the idea but will never go for the green tag for reasons stated above. If this is the future then I suggest BMW, Ford and Jaguar start looking at the infrastructure before going too far with the vehicles.

But would I buy an S? Yes.

I know someone with a Tesla snd he loves it. He never mentions the green thing either, and he does own an Audi ur quattro too.

He tells me that he was one of the early adopters, and that the first x00 buyers (cant remember the figure) have free electricity charges for as long as they own the car and charge from one of Teslas own charging points.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Teslas. Or just Tesla. As I said on the Silverstone Classic thread, we used the Tesla service to get from the Wing to the National Paddocks and back again. And very comfortable they were.

As one does, I asked the drivers to tell me about Teslas and what they thought. It soon became clear that what I was doing was talking to the motorized version of an Apple fan. Tesla has worked out that by building an infrastructure of fast or "super" charging locations, no more than 60 miles apart in any direction, they can not only guarantee (as long as there is electricity) a completed journey, they can ensure that they know exactly where every Tesla (whatever model) is and what it is doing; and indeed, where it is going.

That, my friends is the scary bit.

However as a vehicle for traveling between A and B I love it. The Tesla S performance, in "Ludicrous Mode" can achieve 0-60 MPH in 2.4 secs! It'll take your face off! Ok you have to pay £95k but who cares when you can get your own street legal dragster?

I don't buy the green thing, simply because you have to dig the battery ingredients out of the ground and funnily enough (or not) a bunch of Brazillian miners died last year working on one of those mines.

Again though, none of the drivers mentioned green issues in the trips we took. One of them told us he'd driven to Spain and much of the drive had been self steering (by the car).

So, I love the idea but will never go for the green tag for reasons stated above. If this is the future then I suggest BMW, Ford and Jaguar start looking at the infrastructure before going too far with the vehicles.

But would I buy an S? Yes.

A friend was working on a Tesla reps. Porsche (!) and at one point someone rang the rep and the gist was the owner had locked himself out, the rep. said let me know when you are stood by the car, got his laptop out and unlocked it for the owner!!

He then explained that unless you turn it off the Tesla is always connected to HQ and constantly reports its location and no doubt other information such as speed!

There are a lot of Teslas around here, including my neighbour - he tells me the reason that he bought it was because his accountant told him to, it seems that most owners are more interested in the financial rather than environmental benefit.
But he is extremely happy with the performance!

Apart from the actual chargers the infrastructure will require empty parking spaces and presumably the cars being able to park themselves once they have been charged, otherwise owners will have to go back to the car to move it so that someone else can use the charger.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

Apart from the actual chargers the infrastructure will require empty parking spaces and presumably the cars being able to park themselves once they have been charged, otherwise owners will have to go back to the car to move it so that someone else can use the charger.

As I understood it, the chargers are mostly at retail outlets and thus you charge your car while having a well earned cup of coffee. As to moving themselves, one of the drivers told us that his car had driven itself for much of his trip to Spain. Now that is scary.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Tesla [...] can ensure that they know exactly where every Tesla (whatever model) is and what it is doing; and indeed, where it is going.

That, my friends is the scary bit.

Interesting that you describe this as 'scary'. What is scary about the manufacturer of a product you are using being aware of how (and where) the product is being used?

[The Fat Clerk]

A chap @ the circuit last week had a Jaguar I-Pace and I have to say I liked the look of it, not so impressed with it's range though, 240 miles before charging, I can do 600 on a tank of diesel.
I'm not ready to change the Range Rover just yet but I have to say the Jag might be the future.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

As I understood it, the chargers are mostly at retail outlets and thus you charge your car while having a well earned cup of coffee. As to moving themselves, one of the drivers told us that his car had driven itself for much of his trip to Spain. Now that is scary.

When you take a flight to Spain, the aircraft flies itself for most of the journey.

One of the requirements if a Tesla user signs up to the Supercharger service is that:
'In consideration of others who need to use a Supercharger, we ask that you move your vehicle when it is finished charging. To encourage this, you will incur an idle fee for the time your car remains parked in a charging stall after it is finished charging. We will waive the idle fee if your car is moved within five minutes after it is finished charging, and the idle fee will not accumulate while less than half of the charging stalls at your location are occupied. All vehicles are subject to idle fees, regardless of when your vehicle was purchased.'

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

As I understood it, the chargers are mostly at retail outlets and thus you charge your car while having a well earned cup of coffee. As to moving themselves, one of the drivers told us that his car had driven itself for much of his trip to Spain. Now that is scary.

True enough it works when they are being used for shopping and short stays but if everyone starts using them to commute many will be parked all day long and need charging.

Just one of the issues that will become evident as we are pushed towards another partial solution to the problem (friend who works on future car stuff says this is an intermediate step, so when everyone has bought one they will then be told what you now need is...).

Is it not illegal to let a car drive itself??

Pilots I met pointed out that while an airplane can fly itself, in a far less complex environment, they don't do it and they would never consider letting a car drive itself - one of them did have a Cobra though and it's questionable whether the driver is really in charge of one of them!!

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, I can do around four hundred miles on a tank in the Jeep but that said 250 miles is a pretty good range for a single charge and it represents around three hours of driving so you'd want a break anyway. The problem with the I-Pace and any other non-Tesla vehicle is the charging availability and the likelihood that a super charger system isn't available to non Tesla vehicles thus a full charge would take hours rather than minutes.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

When you take a flight to Spain, the aircraft flies itself for most of the journey.

One of the requirements if a Tesla user signs up to the Supercharger service is that:
'In consideration of others who need to use a Supercharger, we ask that you move your vehicle when it is finished charging. To encourage this, you will incur an idle fee for the time your car remains parked in a charging stall after it is finished charging. We will waive the idle fee if your car is moved within five minutes after it is finished charging, and the idle fee will not accumulate while less than half of the charging stalls at your location are occupied. All vehicles are subject to idle fees, regardless of when your vehicle was purchased.'

I just mentioned the flying bit - different airlines must have different standards!
But there are far less obstacles in the air and not much that is likely to jump out unexpectedly etc.

The requirement to move the Tesla makes sense and is reasonable but what happens when there aren't enough empty spaces and how far away can the owner afford to be if he only has 5 minutes to move it.
Hardly a viable option for a business vehicle...

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

True enough it works when they are being used for shopping and short stays but if everyone starts using them to commute many will be parked all day long and need charging.

Yes I understood your point.

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

Just one of the issues that will become evident as we are pushed towards another partial solution to the problem (friend who works on future car stuff says this is an intermediate step, so when everyone has bought one they will then be told what you now need is...).

Again the pace of development is so great I can't see things remaining the same for more than a couple of years.

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

Is it not illegal to let a car drive itself??

Pilots I met pointed out that while an airplane can fly itself, in a far less complex environment, they don't do it and they would never consider letting a car drive itself - one of them did have a Cobra though and it's questionable whether the driver is really in charge of one of them!!

Agreed, I don't think laws have been passed to permit self driving vehicles. But unless something goes wrong, how would you know it was driving itself?

[Willmaz223]

First driving lesson today.Little nervous obviously.

Any tips?

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Agreed, I don't think laws have been passed to permit self driving vehicles. But unless something goes wrong, how would you know it was driving itself?

The car will rat on the non-driver!!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

250 miles is a pretty good range for a single charge and it represents around three hours of driving so you'd want a break anyway. The problem with the I-Pace and any other non-Tesla vehicle is the charging availability and the likelihood that a super charger system isn't available to non Tesla vehicles thus a full charge would take hours rather than minutes.

Where in the UK can you get 250 miles in about 3 hours?
Other than it being illegal, how can you maintain an average speed of 83mph for 3 hours straight?

Taking a more realistic figure of 50mph average, I would be driving for 4.5hrs before reaching the range, at which point a break would be highly recommended. If driving professionally, this would have to be a minimum of 45 mins.

For interest, I looked at a route between North Yorkshire and South Shropshire that I travel regularly. The journey could be completed on a full charge, but if not I would pass two rapid chargers that could replenish 80% of an I-Pace battery in 45 mins. And approximately 50 points that could replenish 80% in 1.5hrs.

Take a look at Zap-Map, and you will see that the lack of charging availability across most of England and Wales is a myth.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

I just mentioned the flying bit - different airlines must have different standards!
But there are far less obstacles in the air and not much that is likely to jump out unexpectedly etc.

Scandinavian Air have an article on this subject.
It even mentions those occasion when the aircraft will be on Autoland.

In the context of Tesla, it is always worth remembering that the drive to Spain was not completed by the car alone, the driver was still in control of decision making.