Porsche 911 RSR a brick?

[Liz]

I have heard disturbing rumours from various quarters of the GT field that the RSR is not only not an improvement to the RS, but may actually be a brick on wheels.

Has anyone any information on this?

[Fogelhund]

That seems suprising. There were suggestions that the RSR was essentially the AJR *special* parts from last year, packaged together as a new car.

I cannot vouch for the reliability of this information though.

Isn't the Freisinger car an RSR, that led testing today in FIA GT? For N-GT that is?

[JAG]

Everything I've heard says the RSR is at least a second quicker a lap than the RS and is a very major step forward.

Can't see Porsche making a dud, particularly as the RS was already very good.

[Fogelhund]

I am told that the Freisinger is indeed using their new RSR's in testing at Monza, and did set the quickest times in N-GT.

[Liz]

Good, then perhaps it is only a few cars that are not yet set up right.

I wondered how that could be true, but one doesn't like to second-guess the experts.

[SALEEN S7R]

Omtrestingly though the times that are being set by the RSR at Monza are slower than those of the pole NGT time from Monza last year. But then so is the GT times too.

[JAG]

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
Omtrestingly though the times that are being set by the RSR at Monza are slower than those of the pole NGT time from Monza last year. But then so is the GT times too.

It is a test afterall, and pretty cold.

[Tim Northcutt]

Gotta say that I would also find it difficult to believe that the RSR is not an improvement on the RS...if for no other reason that it would be so unlike Porsche...that maker has a solid stable of engineers....

But sometimes changes here and there can, when they are put together in one package, be a step backwards....

Guess we'll find out over time....

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by JAG
It is a test afterall, and pretty cold.

Yes Jag Im fully aware of that. But this car is supposed to be such a huge improvement over the 911 RS I would have thought the RSR would have been up with the qualifying times of last year, of the older RS. Sure its cold, but it isnt cold enough really to make a big differnce if u ask me, and lets not forget the Monza round last year was also quite cold I bet, it was September then If i remember rightly.

[JAG]

There are factors such as tyres, fuel load, race length runs, set-ups etc. to take into account.

[skycafe]

Here is something to ponder. The Flying Lizard car at Daytona 24 was apparently a GT3 Cup car with some upgrades, which I guess were engine, and probably pushing spec up towards RS level. That car flew, and the main reason seems to have been the narrow bodywork of the Cup car. Sure, it gives up some handling, but Daytona is one of those tracks were unfettered high speeds are can overcome losses in cornering. I am thinking Le Mans would be the same. Can the RSR drive train be fitted to the Cup bodywork and result in a legal car with the ACO?

[sportscarsRULE]

I thought FIA N-GT only allowed the previous year's model. Is that how it was at one point? And how is the Ferrari 360 GTC doing?

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by JAG
There are factors such as tyres, fuel load, race length runs, set-ups etc. to take into account.

Yes Jag, Im aware of that, as Im sure almost everyone else here is. That still dosent change the fact though that so far the car has failed to go faster than last years NGT pole time, u can think of lots of possible explanations for this sure, but this car should be faster than the RS, and IMO should be lapping faster than the RS did last year by now.

[JAG]

I'll make a judgement when they race.

The car will have done thousands of miles around the Porsche test track, and I'm am sure it will be a significant step forwrd.

[SALEEN S7R]

Oh yes I dont doubt that the car will be a step forward, but how much of a step? Thats the question, so far the car has yet to show any blistering pace. Im sure the Freisinger team will get the car sorted out in time though, but Im still a bit dissapointed so far, expected this car to be beating the lap times it set last year straight out of the box.

[JAG]

I think the car will have more potential in the long term.

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree Jag, the car defintly will be faster over the long term. Im just suprised it isnt faster straight out of the box, and yes Im aware that could be for a number of reasons as u have already pointed out, but all the same I still expected it to have been faster than the time the older RS set for Monza in qualifying. But yes Jag the car will be faster than the older RS in the end, when though?

[JAG]

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
I agree Jag, the car defintly will be faster over the long term. Im just suprised it isnt faster straight out of the box, and yes Im aware that could be for a number of reasons as u have already pointed out, but all the same I still expected it to have been faster than the time the older RS set for Monza in qualifying. But yes Jag the car will be faster than the older RS in the end, when though?

When the season starts would be a good time

[Carse]

does the rsr breath through the same restrictors as the rs? if not this could explain pole times (obvoisly if the restrictors are smaller) as i know aco reduced restrictore size for '03 at le mans and i was wondering if the fia had taken the same route, to reduce horsepower that is?

[SALEEN S7R]

No the restrictor sizes in FIA GT didnt change for the 2003 season, purley because Ratel said the restrictor sizes would be back to the 2002 specification for 2004 so he didnt see the point. In the case of the ALMS the LMP 1, LMP 2, GTS, and GT class cars will have 2002 restrictor sizes, the same applies for the LMES, the main reason the restrictors were introduced last year was because the tunnels under the LMP class cars werent ready for the 2003 season so the ACO neeeded another way to slow the LMP cars down, it just so happened that all classess were affected. The old LMP 900 and LMP 675 machinery though will still run with 2003 restrictors.

[Carse]

thanks for clearing that up. i never really understood why aco did that i thought it was just to reduce horsepower and keep speeds down. any idea why the overall times are down on last years then? especiall y the rsr?

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
... and lets not forget the Monza round last year was also quite cold I bet, it was September then If i remember rightly.

Believe me, Sal, Italy in September is usually far from cold!

[Mags]

Originally posted by Carse
does the rsr breath through the same restrictors as the rs? if not this could explain pole times (obvoisly if the restrictors are smaller) as i know aco reduced restrictore size for '03 at le mans and i was wondering if the fia had taken the same route, to reduce horsepower that is?

And do you know most teams HAVEN'T EVEN TESTED THEM YET????

[Audi R8R]

That's because they've only been arriving at most teams workshops within the last week or so. So there probably aren't that many that have been properly set-up. And I wouldn't read too much into test times compared to qualifying times at Monza. For a start its cold, a DAMN sight colder than September race time last season and the whole point of qualifying is to wring its neck to be asfast as physically possible. Why risk your brand new 250 grand racer on its maiden shakedown?

I heard that the final derivative RSR in testing at the end of last season (in the hands of Friesinger) when they finally bolted all of the updated bits on 'at the same time' (they'd been testing lots of parts but at different times) the car was almost two seconds a lap faster at the circuit they were testing at. I forget where it was now.

The main changes are aerodynamic on the front splitter and cooling etc from what I can gather, so it won't be until we see better temperatures where the teams can exploit tyres and grip better that we'll see times tumbling.

That or Porsche have built a dud! ;P

[Mags]

Originally posted by Audi R8R
That's because they've only been arriving at most teams workshops within the last week or so. So there probably aren't that many that have been properly set-up. And I wouldn't read too much into test times compared to qualifying times at Monza. For a start its cold, a DAMN sight colder than September race time last season and the whole point of qualifying is to wring its neck to be asfast as physically possible. Why risk your brand new 250 grand racer on its maiden shakedown?

I heard that the final derivative RSR in testing at the end of last season (in the hands of Friesinger) when they finally bolted all of the updated bits on 'at the same time' (they'd been testing lots of parts but at different times) the car was almost two seconds a lap faster at the circuit they were testing at. I forget where it was now.

The main changes are aerodynamic on the front splitter and cooling etc from what I can gather, so it won't be until we see better temperatures where the teams can exploit tyres and grip better that we'll see times tumbling.

That or Porsche have built a dud! ;P

Porsche-AH don't build bad cars. But, it all depends who drives them, too