Difference between RBR and STR ???

[karimbo]

Can someone please explain me the difference between Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso ? They have the same tyres. As for the engine, STR's is probably better. And as for the chassis, everyone can see that they are identical.

Why is there such a difference in performance between the two teams some week-ends and in other races their performances are almost identical?

[FPV GTHO]

The on-track engineers, mechanics etc seem to be making the difference. RBR are coming to the tracks massively more prepared to their sister squad, getting the setup and balance closer and reacting to the conditions better. The drivers being more experienced will be having an effect as well, but can you think of any technical appointments that are being made to STR's race squad?

[Born Racer]

Considering the potential of the car as seen by the Red Bull team, Toro Rosso have been performing poorly.

[cptkablamo]

red bull have more money and competent management...

[rcarr]

The drivers are more experienced. DC is great at setting up cars, he knows what a "good car" feels like and he helps them develop the car closer to a McLaren.

As for MW, he is an unknown, he hasn't driven for a top team, even though we'd all like to think of Williams being a top team, he hasn't really proved that he can cut it with the big boys. His qualifying efforts are good but he just can't get it carried over to the race, his podiums are more out of retirements by others than sheer pace. DC can somehow qualify badly but get his race setup right.

The STR guys are still Minardi at heart, still a small team with big hearts and struggle to develop the car. I don't see why Berger doesn't do some development of the car himself? He was a fast consistent racer not that long ago.

[BootsOntheSide]

Also, they are using the engine the car was designed to take - everything has be modified for the STR to take the Ferrari unit. They might get some updates later as well.

The biggest differences are the lack of quality people at STR - on the technical and managerial sides they seem less organised and capable than RBR. Add the lack of an experienced driver (and the common suspicion that Liuzzi and Speed have both underperformer) and the gap is explained.

[gttouring]

all true, but how low on power are customer ferrair engines?
you may think the STR and Spyker ferrari (you'd think they would want BMW...) would post higher straight line speeds...
look at how Superaguri embarrasses Honda Factory every week this year (Go Taku!)
With all things being equal would RBR share some info with STR?

[fraggs]

Originally Posted by karimbo

Can someone please explain me the difference between Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso ? They have the same tyres. As for the engine, STR's is probably better. And as for the chassis, everyone can see that they are identical.

Why is there such a difference in performance between the two teams some week-ends and in other races their performances are almost identical?

With Renault engines in the Red Bull's and Ferrari engines in the Toro's its an interesting experiment since the chassis' are virtually identical.

As for differences in their performance, who knows.. All thats really left is the drivers and their competency, the aero set ups on the cars for the weekend, the strategy and the order in which they run their tyres... Given what they've had done to them over the last 12 months and with the hiring of Newey I would have expected to see the Toros being in amongst the solid midfield and the Bull's somewhere near the front of the midfield getting consistent 3rds and 4ths by now..

[porsche45]

If you believe this article, STR doesn't put any pressure on it's drivers.

http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...07/8/6575.html

[shiny side up!]

Aside from the engine differences -

While the underlying basics of the STR and the RBR are the same, they are not running the same spec. RBR tests any new bits Newey's folks comes up with, and when they find something that is a "go", the first rounds of race parts/spares go to the RBR team.

STR does not really test new components, they just given the new bits that are developed through RBR tests. In the end, this basically equates to the STR chassis to being about 2-3 months behind the RBR (specifically in aero treatment and suspension components). In some cases, like the seamless-shift gearbox, the STR is more than 2-3 months back - not necessarily a bad thing in that case when it comes to reliability, although Liuzzi may not agree

[Speedworx]

RBR is a decent team who can win races at some stage.

STR is a crappy team that won't ever go anywhere.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by fraggs

Given what they've had done to them over the last 12 months and with the hiring of Newey I would have expected to see the Toros being in amongst the solid midfield and the Bull's somewhere near the front of the midfield getting consistent 3rds and 4ths by now..

Consistent 3rd's and 4th's are high targets for even BMW. Ferrari and McLaren's reliability is simply too high these days.

[broadrun96]

From things I had heard on here and from guys having attended races, the two chassis actually looked markedly different in a few areas. Plus from all reports the team managers and race engineers just don't really have the necessary level of experience to operate without the testing hours needed to show up and know immediately how to adjust the car to the conditions. Basically to me it sounds like a good way for a guy who loves all things mechanical to burn through some cash. I know its prob cheaper to share and a good investment IF the customer car thing goes through, but if it doesn't they are pretty much screwed.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by gttouring

all true, but how low on power are customer ferrair engines?
you may think the STR and Spyker ferrari (you'd think they would want BMW...) would post higher straight line speeds...
look at how Superaguri embarrasses Honda Factory every week this year (Go Taku!)
With all things being equal would RBR share some info with STR?

There is no difference in power between Ferrari's own and the customer engines, every manufacurer had to send an engine to the FIA last year for inspection and that is the engine configuration that they will have to use, there are no upgrades possible, it's not only the engine that makes the top speed, it's also the aerodynamic efficiency(drag) and the mechanical grip(if you have higher levels of mechanical grip you will need less wing=less drag)

[Rick]

Originally Posted by rcarr

His qualifying efforts are good but he just can't get it carried over to the race, his podiums are more out of retirements by others than sheer pace. DC can somehow qualify badly but get his race setup right.

ot I know but I cant let that pass! Webber is giving DC a pasting at the moment - race pace included. Have a look at the last two races - not just where they start and finish, but lap by lap - chalk and cheese.

[McKendrick]

Originally Posted by hakkiman

RBR is a decent team who can win races at some stage.

STR is a crappy team that won't ever go anywhere.

STR was solely purchased to get the redbull backed drivers a drive while getting good development drivers to get RBR towards the front of the grid. I think the plan was once this had happened to get one of the Red bull backed drivers into the seat again.

[FPV GTHO]

Well that was the plan as of 2005. I think many expected either of Liuzzi or Speed to be at RBR by now. RBR have confirmed their 2008 drivers, and if everything stays rosey i would think Webber would still want to stay around past that. Coulthard too if the team still want him and he's still on form.

[Rick]

If Vettel lives up to his promise, I'd have my money on Webber/Vettel at RBR in 2009.

[flor]

from what i read Bourdais will be announced as the other STR driver for 08 on wednesday

[zac510]

Originally Posted by rcarr

The drivers are more experienced. DC is great at setting up cars, he knows what a "good car" feels like and he helps them develop the car closer to a McLaren.

Where'd you get that idea?

[FPV GTHO]

I think its more important that DC has a good, long working history with Newey.