STR, Todt, and Bourdais

[chillibowl]

so i came across this article from the espn website about Sebastien Bourdais, possible move to STR for next year.
needless to say it draws conections between his manager, Nicolas Todt (a fact i was unaware of), and a potential sale of Dietrich Mateschitz 50% share of STR to Todt who will in turn rebrand as ART GP witht he team still maintaining conections to both Red Bull and Ferrari.

Originally Posted by excerpt:

"...Speculation in Europe has Todt (the son of Ferrari sporting director Jean Todt) acquiring STR from Red Bull magnate Dietrich Mateschitz and running it under the ART Grand Prix banner...He reportedly hopes to maintain technical links with Red Bull Technology to benefit from design director Adrian Newey's expertise. Through the Todt connection, ART could also emerge with stronger links to Ferrari, which will continue to supply the team's engines in 2008. "

now this is a super team and could be pretty huge, but i haven't heard this reported anywhere else. not even a brief mention of it in fact. has anyone else seen anything about this?

[Born Racer]

I've seen it speculated for a while, and I think all the parties involved have denied it (not that this means anything.)

[Fiorentina 1]

Bet you Ralf Schumacher ends up in that team as well and Michael ends up doing some testing......

[Mekola]

Why don't Ralf tries to place on Seb's place at ChampCars???

[slicktoast]

If Seabass goes there under current conditions, he will be made to look like a fool and he'll regret leaving ChampCars/LMS. Maybe he should talk to Juan, Tonio & Scott before he leaves for the "pinacle".

[Dutton]

If he wants to give F1 a shot, though, then he has to get in somewhere.

I think he is easily a better driver than Tonio and Scott, thus he shouldn't face so much of the grief as those two: the entire STR outfit would likely work for Bourdais, which would help all concerned I imagine.

Also, I feel, if he were to perform in STR, which I am sure he would, then, given STR's current reputation/image, Bourdais would come out of it looking rather good. I do see your point, though: STR is not in great shape, and it could end his career before it really starts. I am, however, not sure he has a lot of choice but to take the chance.

Having no F1 starts is a worse F1 career than giving it a shot with STR.

[Davhut]

And Berger traded a perfectly profitable trucking firm for this? What an idiot. His treatment of Scott Speed, along with the other principals in STR is unforgivable.
While Mr. Speed might not be Alonso, he's far better than STR at this point and we wish him the best, and the high road.
This WILL and SHOULD hurt Red Bull in the States.
Our family is switching to GO FAST, which tastes better than perfume.

[Bluewolf]

All I can say is I hope Sebass has no more than a one year deal for his own good. I can't see Toro Rosso moving up the grid at all in '08. But I can see them moving down as this year they are outqualifying Honda sometimes and that's definitely not going to be the case next year. The financial resources at Honda are absolutely frightening. Same with Toyota and I submit they will both make much bigger gains than STR next year -- so look for STR to be fighting with Spyker for the honor of starting in the 10th row! Sebass will have to impress and then hope he can sign with a good team for '09.

[neilap]

Hopefully, he opens eyes as much as Alonso did. I think he will. F1 is as much a closed society as Nascar is though, it seems you are either in or out, unless you ar paying a lesser team to drive.

[Dutton]

Significant talent always shines in poorer machinery (Trulli, Fisichella, Webber, Alonso, Senna, Sutil, [and such]).

Bourdais will make people notice, I am sure. He is 3-time (possibly 4-time?) consecutive ChampCar champion. This may not in itself mean that much to F1 people these days, but it will nonetheless mean that he will be watched a lot more keenly than many rookies entering such a team would be.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Significant talent always shines in poorer machinery (Trulli, Fisichella, Webber, Alonso, Senna, Sutil, [and such]).

Bourdais will make people notice, I am sure. He is 3-time (possibly 4-time?) consecutive ChampCar champion. This may not in itself mean that much to F1 people these days, but it will nonetheless mean that he will be watched a lot more keenly than many rookies entering such a team would be.

He also has 27 wins and 40 podiums from 67 starts, and has been in the top 5 in 46 of his starts

[Gt_R]

Once again, it will be better to wait for Bourdais to prove himself and over-deliver, rather than us piling expectations which fail to show returns.

Speed and Tonio find themselves in a bad situation. I find Berger's behavior in this situation almost out-of-character, and quite different from the driver we used to know. In any case, i would believe than a management would behave in a much professional manner than that portrayed by the team.

Bourdais is wanted by STR, and that may be the difference. Because Speed and Tonio are recommended by Red Bull, hence they are not the natural choice of Berger and Tost. But as poor as the drivers may be made to be looked as, its unfortunate that the team isn't as blunt and clear when admitting to their own lackings.

[davyboy]

Bourdais is an excellent driver and, as of right now, is likely to get more from the STR than the incumbents. However, the operation and management of the team seems to be in a crisis situation too... and Bourdais has a reputation for being cantankerous and critical of his team members out of the driving seat. Factor in that he's been used to a highly professional outfit in Champcars [arguably a lot better than STR] and regular visits to the winners circle and you'd begin to think that a move to STR at this moment in time is a recipie for disaster.

Having said that, if Bourdais does want to go to F1, he cannot turn down a race seat at STR... but he needs to seriously moderate his attitude if he is to make anything worthwhile out of it.

[andy_b]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Having said that, if Bourdais does want to go to F1, he cannot turn down a race seat at STR... but he needs to seriously moderate his attitude if he is to make anything worthwhile out of it.

Agreed, Bourdais has a reputation for complaining and moaning about everyone but himself. I think he's very good, but have to admit I was dissapointed with his wet weather ability in champcar this year.

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by davhut

And Berger traded a perfectly profitable trucking firm for this? What an idiot. His treatment of Scott Speed, along with the other principals in STR is unforgivable.
While Mr. Speed might not be Alonso, he's far better than STR at this point and we wish him the best, and the high road.
This WILL and SHOULD hurt Red Bull in the States.
Our family is switching to GO FAST, which tastes better than perfume.

im sorry but i see both speed and tonio to be a waste of time in f1. speed is nothing else but an idiot, i mean shouting about telling peeps to f off, shouting about his boss, just arent the way to win over people and get drives, he has too much arrogance and unfortunately he is not good enough to get away with being arrogant, tonio is quiteter, but again shows no promise in f1. gerhard may have had a few things to say about the pair, and they may have been wrong to say to the public, but at the end of the day i agree with his comments, they arent serious drivers, and the seats should be taken by more deserving drivers like bourdais, who has proved himself in champ car, and other new talent coming up from GP2 etc.

[JeremySmith]

Irrespective of Scott Speed being the worst driver that ever ventured into an F1 car, and I am not saying that is the case by any means, there is no excuse for Gerhard to say anything in public he should and does know better, Doesn't he?

[Bluewolf]

Originally Posted by Kieran20

im sorry but i see both speed and tonio to be a waste of time in f1. speed is nothing else but an idiot, i mean shouting about telling peeps to f off, shouting about his boss, just arent the way to win over people and get drives, he has too much arrogance and unfortunately he is not good enough to get away with being arrogant, tonio is quiteter, but again shows no promise in f1. gerhard may have had a few things to say about the pair, and they may have been wrong to say to the public, but at the end of the day i agree with his comments, they arent serious drivers, and the seats should be taken by more deserving drivers like bourdais, who has proved himself in champ car, and other new talent coming up from GP2 etc.

Keep in mind that all this hassle did not start with the drivers - it started with Franz and Gerhard's constant criticism in public! -- all F1 drivers have big egos and eventually they're going to be tempted to start criticizing those who criticize them -- I agree totally that Speed should have handled it differently than he did -- but it's also true that if Gerhard and Franz would have kept their criticisms behind closed doors and to the drivers themselves, it never would have come to this.

[Mekola]

Liuzzi is actually more diplomatic. It could help to save his place at F1, whether at STR, Williams or elsewhere. And remember he has two important backings: one from Red Bull and other from Sutton Images.

[BootsOntheSide]

It started with Speed and Liuzzi continuously driving badly enough to deserve criticism. Tost and Berger have had no say in drivers over the last 2 years, and basically got RBR's unwanted Ferrari engines this year. They feel the team can do better than 1 point in 1 1/2 years, and that a change of drivers is the best way to improve that. Things shouldn't be boiling into a confrontation, but if the drivers have not worked hard enough to improve the team or have broken team rules in other ways, it's perhaps inevitable.

[hotwheels]

I do believe that F1 these days has less patience with drivers. Guys who got there been backed all the way before must deliver something in a short period. Otherwise it is always better to pay more to have the best. STR should pick one experienced driver and keep one seat for junior development, IMO.

[Kirk]

In almost every interview I have heard involving Speed, (that inevitably take place after a retirement or poor showing by his team), he has shown diplomacy in his responses. All the while the constant failures and poor showings were most likely wearing on him, but he remained patient and optimistic (at least on the surface). Speed has struck me as being an honest fellow and when Frik and Frak started the bad mouthing through the media, he just couldn’t hold it back anymore … and it all came spewing out. I bet he feels better for it and if you believe the media, he will continue in his seat for next race. But has it cleared the air? NOPE!

[fordtc87]

check this article out: http://www.speedtv.com/articles/nascar/nextel/39037/

Newman/Hass/Lanigan mergers with Robert Yates and now Bourdais is looking at NASCAR. How great would this be for STR now? They might be back to a driver search. They are a 2nd tier team and are probably only going to get young talent to develop, Berger and Tost need to stop acting like they are top dogs and accept this. You don't think that Bourdais might not want to be involved with this team now?

I honestly think that Bourdais would go crazy driving in circles and I don't know if there is a French influence in Nascar, but might be an interesting turn. Thoughts?

[Down F0rce]

Never gonna happen, not next year anyway. If SeaBass doesn't go to F1 now then it will pass him by. STR are the ones that have an option on him anyway so he might not have a choice, assuming he's interested in this deal. He can do NASCAR anytime after his F1 visit.

[Knowlesy]

Interesting stuff! Bourdais has always said he'd like to give NASCAR a whirl too. He has done IROC I think (successfully) and he has had stabs at Indy as well as his Champcar oval runs. That would be cool indeed.

But having said that I think he'd like a stab at F1 first. It's surely on his "to do" list

[fordtc87]

do you think that the recent turmoil and having been at such a sucessful team in cc it might throw him off going to a back marker f1 team though? He is an old duck as F1 goes and spending a couple of seasons to develop for an up and coming team? With all of red bull's young drivers I am not sure he fits into STR. Even here in the states we don't hear anything from Bourdais, he is extremely quiet guy, well that and champ car gets squat for coverage. In Indianapolis the IRL is most prominently covered.