Vettel has joined Toro Rosso/Now signed for 2008!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by The Saint

I really don’t understand how RedBull allowed the raging lunatic Austrian (Berger) to do this. Speed was the end product of the Red Bull search for an American GP star program. Red Bull have invested 20 odd million dollars into this kid, and like a bad experiment, dump him in the trash can. It makes not sense at all.

It makes perfect sense to me. Red Bull backing took Speed to F1, but he has proven to be nothing special. Therefore, there's little point in throwing any more money at his F1 career. Best to cut their losses, I reckon.

[rallycrosscraig]

look forward to seeing how Vettell does v's Luizzi. Not a great place for young drivers RedBull have ditched

[jab]

Could it be possible that Bourdais has rejected the option for STR for next season and they've signed Vettel up instead, and they have someone else lined up for the other seat?

[The Saint]

Though Speed never set the world alight as someone Lewis Hamilton has, you can hardly expect him to when the car he is driving is a pile junk!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Though Speed never set the world alight as someone Lewis Hamilton has, you can hardly expect him to when the car he is driving is a pile junk!

The car is a Ferrari powered Arian Newey designed (though they may not admit to that) vehicle.It has the potential to be as good as if not better than the RedBulls (finished third in Germay).It is not a "pile junk!".

[Down F0rce]

It's the best car that team (including the Minardi years) have ever had. Maybe they just don't understand how to get the best from it, after all they had been used to using a chassis for a few years at a time, they were never at the cutting edge...

[Sev]

To be honest, a lot depends on how Vettel does. If Vettel fails to shine at all in the STR, Speed will be fairly vindicated.

By most metrics Speed and Liuzzi have been very evenly matched this year (Speed qualifies better, Liuzzi finishes more, etc, but all only slightly).

Vettel, despite being inexperienced, needs to bury Liuzzi in the remaining 8(?) races.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Though Speed never set the world alight as someone Lewis Hamilton has, you can hardly expect him to when the car he is driving is a pile junk!

Why not? Sutil is shining in the Spyker. And that really is a pile junk.

[steve nielsen]

The Torro Rosso is the same as the Red Bull, but with a Ferrari engine, Mark Webber scored a podium with that chassis.

[Sev]

I'd agree. Vettel should be able to score frequent points in this car. I can't podiums happening, but he should be able to outscore the Super Aguri's and Honda's.

[kartracer41]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Why not? Sutil is shining in the Spyker. And that really is a pile junk.

How is Sutil shining?

I don't know who to feel sorry for more now, Vettel or Speed. Speed obviously wasn't a TFG or anything, but the drivers aren't the problem with STR. I was really impressed with Vettel's GP debut, but I almost hope he doesn't do a ton better than Speed at STR. I want the team to get a clue. Just because they have the best Minardi ever,with Ferrari power and Newey design, doesn't mean they have it all working together.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by kartracer41

How is Sutil shining?

By driving very well and showing obvious pace.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by kartracer41

How is Sutil shining?

He made Albers look amateurish (which he isn't),and he'll do the same to Yamamoto.Sutil is pretty much doing what Alonso did in the Minardi.He's making the right people sit up and take notice.

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by kartracer41

How is Sutil shining?

If you follow F1 closely you'd know the answer yourself. Word has it in the paddock that he has been getting more out of the Spyker which is a pretty bad car. And he has also been praised by his fellow drivers (including Hamilton who rates him very highly), which is quite hard to achieve in F1. For example, at Indy he was firmly in the thick of the midfield battle in what is a back of the grid car, and basically blew Albers away making him look slow, which even he isn't.

[Bluewolf]

I'm sad for Speed and less interested in F1 now -- Oh well -- it will be interesting to see how Vettel does though -- and how frustrated he will become as the team continues to flounder. If he really is something special he will find another team by '09.

I hope Scott goes to CC -- That American based series is shy of American drivers and Graham Rahal is not that impressive so far {although he is extremely young}

The best American hope for F1 now is Jonathan Summerton IMO as Marco Andretti is overated.

[chunterer]

Doesn't matter how good Vettel has the potential to be, he won't do anything much greater than Speed or Liuzzi have, witht he possible exception of stopping chucking it in the barriers or gravel like they both have had an unfortunate tendency to do.

Don't be surprised if Liuzzi has the measure of him pace wise though. I agree with what was said earlier about overdriving because that's exactly what he has been doing. There's nothing wrong with his talent, maybe something wrong with his temperament though.

[The Saint]

[q]If you follow F1 closely you'd know the answer yourself.[/q]

that was a bad answer, responding with "if you follow the sport closely" is insulting and showing a complete disregard for anothers point. I do 'follow the sport closely' and have done so since the late 70's, and I too cannot say that sutil has shown what you claim. In many races Sutil has looked just as clumsy as his team-mate. But then you would know that if you followed the sport closely!

[mp356a]

Sutil is always quick in the rain. Many feel that is the great equalizer in F1 and I tend to agree that he is quite fast.

[Sodemo]

A good move too late really. I never rated Speed or Liuzzi, but its good that Vettel will get another stab in a race seat, he was very impressive at Indy.

[kartracer41]

Originally Posted by runshaw

If you follow F1 closely you'd know the answer yourself. Word has it in the paddock that he has been getting more out of the Spyker which is a pretty bad car. And he has also been praised by his fellow drivers (including Hamilton who rates him very highly), which is quite hard to achieve in F1. For example, at Indy he was firmly in the thick of the midfield battle in what is a back of the grid car, and basically blew Albers away making him look slow, which even he isn't.

I am guessing our countries each have different media focus. I do keep up on F1 quite a bit between this site, a few F1 related news sites and television. Other than some talk here, I don't see anyone praising him. I guess I am missing something. I think different levels of hype are created for different drivers in different areas of the world for whatever reason, may it be nationality, connections, or previous racing experiences. I appologize if I offended anyone by my question.

[Teretonga]

Kartracer 41 is correct.

Torro Rosso don't seem to be able to get all the parts to operate together. It has potential but isn't just able to gel.
finances are still difficult for the team. It doesn't have the funding level of Red Bull nor the expertise. Berger is a great bloke but so was Prost till he tried to run a team on a tight budget and it nearly destroyed him.

Both drivers are relatively inexperienced in F1 and they do not have the services of an experienced tester or development driver and a test team so is it surprising if the drivers chuck it into the barriers when trying to do something with it that it just isn't set up for....
Neither is as bad as they have looked this year...

[Dutton]

I would agree that the North American media has not had much to say about Sutil, but I would also agree with those who have praised him.

I think he has been doing a thoroughly admirable job, and (potentially) could have a decent F1 career in him.

[andy_b]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Though Speed never set the world alight as someone Lewis Hamilton has, you can hardly expect him to when the car he is driving is a pile junk!

sorry but that just doesnt stick.

Alonso shown in the Minardi years ago as did a certain Senna in a Toleman. You can reel the names off. Bellof (and to an extent Brundle), Prost in the M29 (or was it 30) McLaren, Fisichella, Trulli etc Sutil this year has shown that while the Spyker is truly dreadful he has some great car control and talent, even if he's trying too hard. I'm sure he will be poached by another team.

Speed just isn't good enough and wasn't called Scott Nospeed in the paddock for nothing. His attitude also didnt go down well with many in the paddock, which didnt help his reputation and thats SOOO important in top flight motorsport.

Luzzi hasn't shown much either, but there has been some rare glimps of speed (but not really this year), so you cant put it all down to STR


Having said all of that, in Scott's defence, his treatment by his team, both verbially and physically is disgraceful. You could never see Ron, Jean or Frank (left Flavio out ) treating their driver like that in public.

[andy_b]

Originally Posted by Sev

To be honest, a lot depends on how Vettel does. If Vettel fails to shine at all in the STR, Speed will be fairly vindicated.

Its a tought introduction, no test (I think) and straight into the Hungarian GP. He did well when he sub'd for Kubica though.

I just hope all the Speed fans dont complain about Vittel after just one race, he needs a bit of time.

I think he will do very well, he seems to have that 'spark' which Sutil has

Re- the earlier post about Sutil not being noticed, Speed TV (normally Matchett) have commented a number of times how good he's doing in such a dreadful car.

[Dutton]

Well, I think the intended message was in the grand scheme of things. I don't see that much of the Speed coverage (the numbers of ad-breaks drives me up the wall).