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5 Aug 2007, 17:24 (Ref:1981765)
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#26 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,739
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Thank God for Mr. Fry and co. that Soichiro Honda is no longer with us.
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__________________
A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" 
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5 Aug 2007, 19:29 (Ref:1981856)
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#27 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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Ah yes, the Honda situation!
Has anyone considered that perhaps there is some sort of curse in play? Perhaps the specter of BARF continues to overshadow the program. Perhaps the Spykers are really faster - Mein Got! When the B-Spec Spyker arrives how far ahead of the Honda's will it finish? I understand that Honda has hired a repo man to take the Super Aguri's back... |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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5 Aug 2007, 19:34 (Ref:1981858)
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#28 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,623
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Well done Spyker!
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5 Aug 2007, 19:56 (Ref:1981883)
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#29 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 25
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I can imagine the bitter tears that are swelling in the Hondas' team managers eyes. A few years ago they were contenders for the championship with Button, and now they are somewhere at the opposite.
Well, at least Toyota seems to get their act together again. 
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5 Aug 2007, 20:13 (Ref:1981899)
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#30 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,986
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Honda has lost key personnel over the past few years and it has come back to bite them. Also, the advantage of having a strong motor has been nullified. BAR and now Honda have always had a weak aero department. They were able to compensate with building tremendous power. Now the motors are all but the same. The key personnel lost were mostly aero too which does not help the team.
To see the team I support finish dead last purely on pace was to quote JB "massively disappointing". The 07 was born bad! There is no hope for making it fast especially since they are just now getting it to be drivable. Its drivable but now incredibly slow. I sincerely hope they are not putting any more resources into this car. There is only one direction to go from last place. I hope that Honda utilizes their new acquisitions to the fullest and that their CFD and Aero. dept. earn their money. The worst part of this whole story is that Honda was facing what could have been their strongest season. Honda had great momentum coming into the season and they seemed to be one of the more stable teams. Well it turns out the personnel they lost and the poor use of the wind tunnel has dealt the ra107 the death blow. This is by far the worst Honda ever built. I don't think they have ever been this uncompetitive in any racing series at any time in their history. Even when in 02 (i think) they lost 3 motors before the race started in Spa they looked better. Even when only the top 6 were being rewarded Honda by this time had more points. It will take a huge effort to recover from this. I am confident they will but how long it takes is left to be seen. Looking at Honda racing heritage in multiple forms of sport we know that they are used to winning. F1 however, has been an exercise in futility thus far. Here's to 08! |
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__________________
Eventually we learn
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5 Aug 2007, 20:54 (Ref:1981940)
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#31 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,938
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I'm feeling the pain. I predicted Button would finish 7th, Massa would get pole, fastest lap and win and Alonso wouldn't finish in the top 8. OH THE PAIN... the pain!!!
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__________________
My Auntie has been ill or so long we now call her, "I can't believe she's not better".
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6 Aug 2007, 01:07 (Ref:1982086)
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#32 | ||
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Retired
20KPINAL
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,897
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Quote:
 Super Aguri must be well looking forward to using next seasons Honda chassis.Assuming they get the customer car thing sorted out that is.
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6 Aug 2007, 03:40 (Ref:1982128)
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#33 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,246
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Button had commented earlier in the weekend the car was lacking "efficient" downforce. Around the Hungaroring? I think the cars problems are pretty deep if even around Hungary theyre making too much drag.
The B spec though was supposed to be the grounds for which they could build the RA108 from, but with that looking like another dud unless the recent hiring spree pays dividends, 2008 wont be too much better. Theres still a question also of whether did they build a dud car initially, or the often talked about not knowing why its fast when its fast, why its slow when its slow. |
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6 Aug 2007, 09:23 (Ref:1982304)
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#34 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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Who knows Martyn, perhaps it will be role-reversal next season and SA can supply Honda!
Neilap, I feel your pain. It has to be tough watching this team struggle after making such a strong showing last season. |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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6 Aug 2007, 09:57 (Ref:1982331)
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#35 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 181
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Quote:
Obviously the aero design of the Honda is awful and trades off too much speed for downforce which was further exacerbated by the Mickey Mouse circuit requiring yet more front downforce. Even the donkeys were struggling with this. Budapest should be kicked off the calendar or be lengthened and speeded up considerably. Honda are recruiting and investing like crazy in their aero side, but they have a huge amount of catching up to do. Japanese corporate cuture is not compatible with F1, there is not enough time to wait till you have consensus and approval from Japan. F1 teams only work with a stong dictator who makes the quick decisions that are necessary in the constant battles that make up the war that is F1. Jenson is a great driver, one of the very best in F1. He is both very fast and also a good racer. He has never been in the best car on the grid and the results he has achieved, especially in the second half of last season, were far better than the car deserved. In a McMerc or a donkey he would be competing for the WDC. He would certainly be in my dream team. Rubens is a known, race winning, quantity. In fact Honda have one of the strongest driver lineups in F1. |
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6 Aug 2007, 10:22 (Ref:1982349)
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#36 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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Of their problems, and they are many at Honda, the driver tandem is not one of them.
I do think Rubens is a bit past it but he still can pedal... |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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6 Aug 2007, 10:56 (Ref:1982375)
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#37 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,635
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Surely, Super Aguri would like to retain their current cars for next season.
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6 Aug 2007, 12:18 (Ref:1982469)
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#38 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,246
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Super Aguri are making noises of building their own car for next season
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7 Aug 2007, 01:30 (Ref:1983029)
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#39 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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How much worse could they do than Honda?
Check that, that isn't fair to the folks at SA! They would have to try really hard in order to do worse... |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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7 Aug 2007, 06:36 (Ref:1983122)
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#40 | ||
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The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,303
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[Clarkson]The RA 107 is the automotive equivalent of Yuji Ide. Crap.[/Clarkson]
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__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
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7 Aug 2007, 07:15 (Ref:1983145)
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#41 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,246
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Quite obviously its all because they never used the Elephant Ears.
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7 Aug 2007, 07:20 (Ref:1983147)
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#42 | ||
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The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,303
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Actually that looks more like Mickey Mouse!
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__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
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7 Aug 2007, 16:12 (Ref:1983496)
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#43 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,739
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Nah! That's definitely Dumbo!
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__________________
A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !"
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7 Aug 2007, 18:01 (Ref:1983568)
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#44 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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Both names adequately describe the 2007 car with or without those ears.
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7 Aug 2007, 18:44 (Ref:1983606)
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#45 | ||
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Retired
20KPINAL
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,897
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Quote:
Although,in this case he's probably right.
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7 Aug 2007, 18:44 (Ref:1983607)
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#46 | ||
 Race Official20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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At least they are trying to make it faster... Dumbo could fly with those ears...
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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8 Aug 2007, 04:33 (Ref:1983682)
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#47 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,246
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I think that photo was from a few months ago when McLaren first debuted the bridge wing, so they've long since abandoned that concept in reality.
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8 Aug 2007, 16:17 (Ref:1984155)
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#48 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 737
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I think Patrick is right. Too much slow input from Japan and changing of their people constantly. The more involved Japan gets the slower the car gets. I feel that is also part of Toy's problem.
That said, if you cannot figure out why a particular model is fast or slow you have some major engineering issues. If a car is slow and you have no idea why, how can you fix it or even design a new one without the same problem, except by luck. 
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__________________
I am really just like a little kitten. Just a baby Puma!
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9 Aug 2007, 01:39 (Ref:1984562)
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#49 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,246
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Well thats not just a result of slow input from Japan, but in Honda's case the guy heading the technical department is out of his depth in F1.
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9 Aug 2007, 09:36 (Ref:1984748)
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#50 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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One gets the feeling that he has plenty of company...
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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