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Old 28 Dec 2021, 11:38 (Ref:4091532)   #51
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Originally Posted by PVDA View Post
I took a drive of the Albert Park circuit on Thursday (before the latest covid lockdown kicked in that night) and the Turn 9/10 complex is going to be interesting as it is GONE.

Should make the old 11/12 turns interesting as they'll be arriving a lot faster.
Video of changes

https://www.grandprix.com.au/fan-zon...ircuit-changes
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Old 28 Dec 2021, 12:10 (Ref:4091536)   #52
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Although that outlines the work being done prior to the 2022 GP, that being dated April '21, it is obviously (hopefully!) now out of date in terms of where they are at now. Again from the GP website I just checked for any updated photos of status. Could not find pics but I did find a warning of road closures due about now and the work in process. I might take a drive over there in the next few days or so to see how they are getting on, and take some current status photos. From the work they are describing it 'seems' it is getting to the final stages and they are now doing the final resurfacing work.

From the website:
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Lakeside Drive (Albert Road – Village Green Drive) will require two separate closures. It will be closed from Monday, 20 December 2021 to Friday, 24 December 2021* to undertake milling and asphalt works and Tuesday, 4 January 2022 to Saturday, 8 January 2022* for paving.
Aughtie Drive (Albert Road – Lakeside Drive) will require two separate closures. It will be closed for night works from 7.30pm to 5.00am from Tuesday, 4 January 2022 to Friday, 7 January 2022 for milling works and Monday, 10 January 2022 to Sunday, 16 January 2022* for paving. Sections of Aughtie Drive will remain accessible throughout the road closures however this will vary day to day.
*Dates may be subject to change.
https://www.grandprix.com.au/communi...-modifications

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Old 28 Dec 2021, 12:32 (Ref:4091540)   #53
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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
From the 2019 Monaco GP thread:



To improve overtaking in Monaco, sacrilege or possible improvement?


Idea being that it helps overtaking at the chicane at the end of the tunnel by:

1 Making it easier to drive an alternative line and stay closer to the front car accelerating towards the tunnel.

2 Slightly longer straight allowing the natural slip stream to have more time (marginal effect is suspect).

3 Slightly higher speed approaching the chicane, resulting in longer braking zones and more chance of an overtake. (again marginal effect I suspect).


Side effect would be to have a nice more fluid chicane added to the Monaco track at Mirabeau Bas.

Second nice side effect you get a very nice shot of the sea there with the correct camera position.
They have “reclaimed” land and are building around that area. If you have google earth on a computer the latest image taken this year at some point, there is/was a big hole in the middle of that proposed extension.
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Old 28 Dec 2021, 13:54 (Ref:4091548)   #54
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They have “reclaimed” land and are building around that area. If you have google earth on a computer the latest image taken this year at some point, there is/was a big hole in the middle of that proposed extension.

My version (July '21) of Google Earth shows the road going around a small green area planted with mature trees, with what looks like a fountain in the middle, before the road joins up with the road to the tunnel. Can't see the hole that you mention.
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Old 28 Dec 2021, 15:56 (Ref:4091560)   #55
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My version (July '21) of Google Earth shows the road going around a small green area planted with mature trees, with what looks like a fountain in the middle, before the road joins up with the road to the tunnel. Can't see the hole that you mention.
Go to the history time line, the most recent on that has the reclaimed land, it’s newer than the main image. I’m not at my computer or I’d screen shot.
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Old 28 Dec 2021, 20:32 (Ref:4091587)   #56
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Now back at my computer

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Old 28 Dec 2021, 21:09 (Ref:4091594)   #57
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I now understand what you are saying, and I think that we were somewhat at cross purposes.

From what had been proposed, the extension to the circuit was on roads that already existed, and the the reclaimed land that they are infilling will now be adjacent to the run in to the tunnel entrance from the roundabout that is by Cipriani Monte Carlo. So, as they come down from Lowe's, they have created a chicane (in effect due to the road layout) turning right initially and instead of continuing going right, they will now immediately turn left to go the roundabout, go round it - the new hairpin - and then the run to the tunnel.

I'm apologise in advance in case you were already aware of the above.
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Old 28 Dec 2021, 23:34 (Ref:4091610)   #58
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No apology necessary.

Given the various street levels in that part of Monte Carlo, any sort of verbal description would be difficult especially as we can't see where this new level of the reclaimed land will ultimately go.

It does appear on a second look that the proposal could in fact still be possible dependant on what is ultimately done in the area where the fountain was.
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Old 29 Dec 2021, 15:36 (Ref:4091674)   #59
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Thanks for clearing that up! Yes it looks a bit inconclusive now if it would still be possible.


Furthermore one wonders if they would want the cars faster and closer to one another going into and through the tunnel. Would be kind of dreadful if one of them would get airborne. I wonder what it would feel like if they enter it into the simulator. Still safer than Jeddah I reckon...
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Old 24 Jan 2022, 16:43 (Ref:4095183)   #60
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Load of videos about the alterations of Albert Park here: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...of+Albert+Park
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Old 31 Jan 2022, 15:12 (Ref:4096849)   #61
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I can’t wait to see the F1 cars round Albert Park. The circuit wasn’t bad to begin with, but this one should add something extra to it
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Old 31 Jan 2022, 16:16 (Ref:4096872)   #62
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They have added more gravel at Spa which is a good thing in one sense, but the first 4 metres or so of the run off is still tarmac, so its done little to help with track limits, after all, how many drivers go more than 1-2 metres wider than the track limit line? I would say none.
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Old 1 Feb 2022, 02:59 (Ref:4096934)   #63
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Re Albert Park changes the resurfacing and reprofiling of corners is now complete.

Some videos of the changes and summaries from the Grand Prix office.

Quote:
The Albert Park Grand Prix Circuit has evolved.

Join us for Episode 1 of a four-part series detailing two years’ worth of work, and the changes that fans can expect to on-track as we speed towards the Formula 1® Heineken® Australian Grand Prix 2022.

Formula 1® has moved on in so many ways from when Melbourne hosted its first race in 1996, but for all that change, the Albert Park circuit has remained largely untouched.

The changes and modifications to the track are a milestone in the history of the Albert Park circuit and promise more speed and more overtaking opportunities and a better racing spectacle, cementing Albert Park as one of the premiere F1® circuits on the planet.

The Evolution of Albert Park: The Brand New F1® Australian Grand Prix Circuit - Episode 01

https://youtu.be/RgzWlc3R_XA


FUTURE EPISODES in the series:

Episode 2: What's Changed at Albert Park
31 January 2022
In Episode 2, we hit the circuit and take an in-depth look at the new track layout, what happens to lap times and why fans are poised to be the big winners with the changes to the new track.

Episode 3: Albert Park's New High Speed Straight
7 February 2022
In Episode 3, we finish our virtual lap of the circuit including the chicanes of turns 9 & 10, additional DRS zone and new viewing opportunities for fans. Episode 3 also details the benefits to the local community that go hand-in-hand with the work done on-track, and nearby park amenities.

Episode 4: The Completed Circuit & 2022
14 February 2022 (TBC)
Our final episode reveals the finishing touches to a world-class track and gives fans a first look at the brand-new Albert Park circuit while we get first impressions from some of the biggest names in F1®


Now available....

Episode 2.... "What has changed at Albert Park"


https://youtu.be/jhbMVuG_RFI



And here is an advance link to the soon to be available Episode 3 : "Albert Park's New High Speed Straight".
This will be be released in 5 days time on this link. (Click on it and now you will be able to set a reminder on its release)

https://youtu.be/HKLRaEEiqhI


I like what I see.... not sure I like the idea of even more DRS zones, but hopefully it will be worthwhile changes that will benefit the racing.

Last edited by E.B; 1 Feb 2022 at 03:24.
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Old 1 Feb 2022, 10:24 (Ref:4096952)   #64
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I can’t wait to see the F1 cars round Albert Park. The circuit wasn’t bad to begin with, but this one should add something extra to it
'

Frankly, Albert Park is probably the worst track on the calendar as far as the racing goes.
Hopefully the changes help.
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Old 1 Feb 2022, 10:54 (Ref:4096955)   #65
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'

Frankly, Albert Park is probably the worst track on the calendar as far as the racing goes.
Hopefully the changes help.
Based on what the changes look like, I can't see any improvement. For a start one heavy braking zone has been replaced by a high speed kink!
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Old 1 Feb 2022, 11:41 (Ref:4096962)   #66
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Based on what the changes look like, I can't see any improvement. For a start one heavy braking zone has been replaced by a high speed kink!
I am not even going to try and argue with you here.
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Old 1 Feb 2022, 14:03 (Ref:4096972)   #67
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When it comes to circuit design (and vicariously circuit alterations) it often baffles me how designers can come up with solutions which are either terrible to drive and produce bad racing (or both together). In recent times we have seen new circuits added to the calendar and often they will have this dreaded combo of a hairpin, long straight, hairpin. I don’t know who decided this was good for racing, because quite simply, it isn’t. Out of a hairpin, you are totally traction limited and the person behind will always be on the throttle after the car in front, so unless you have a 2km straight, better traction and / or also a straight-line advantage, you won’t be getting past. I think this is perfectly exemplified at the Abu Dhabi race track. I know it has had alterations recently which has made its awfulness a bit less, but that hairpin into the tight chicane is a perfect example of this.

What you really need in order to generate overtaking is (in my opinion), one of two things, either a medium speed corner onto a long straight, or a slightly banked higher speed chicane, or perhaps just a banked medium speed corner. I know high speed corners have their own problem because of the aero wake generated, but with any luck that should be a bit less in 2022.

I just don’t know how and why with all the millions spent on the sport, these things keep happening. Why past drivers or people who race aren’t consulted over these things I do not know, because I don’t think for a second that these Tilkedromes have driver design input.
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Old 1 Feb 2022, 21:23 (Ref:4097017)   #68
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The thing is Albert Park has been limited being in a public park that is used by everyday traffic. But I don’t see how it’s one of the worst tracks. It certainly can be an unforgiving circuit if you get it wrong, so it certainly earns respect

Now it’s even faster it should really be a challenge to the drivers
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Old 7 Feb 2022, 10:33 (Ref:4097650)   #69
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I cant wait to see F1 run around the Los Angeles 'Coliseum' that NASCAR used on the weekend....
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Old 7 Feb 2022, 13:52 (Ref:4097675)   #70
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I just don’t know how and why with all the millions spent on the sport, these things keep happening. Why past drivers or people who race aren’t consulted over these things I do not know, because I don’t think for a second that these Tilkedromes have driver design input.
Assuming for a moment that the people who commission, design and pay for tracks are not all idiots (I know…just run with it…) why ARE they built the way they are? Not a rhetorical question - I don’t know. Some random thoughts:

- because they work for the 99.99% of motorsport that is not F1
- safety
- technical challenge
- demands of TV
- good spectator viewing
- logistics of access
- non-racing activity (track days etc)

I don’t know. But there must be a logic to it because tracks are not being designed and built at random.
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Old 8 Feb 2022, 05:51 (Ref:4097761)   #71
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
The thing is Albert Park has been limited being in a public park that is used by everyday traffic. But I don’t see how it’s one of the worst tracks. It certainly can be an unforgiving circuit if you get it wrong, so it certainly earns respect

Now it’s even faster it should really be a challenge to the drivers
If you don’t think Max v Lewis + Netflix= Golden Age Of F1 think about these ticket sales for Albert Park in April
-All grandstands sold out within 24 hours of going on sale in November
-2 extra grandstands added and put on sale early December.Sold out in 15 minutes
-Today 5 more new grandstands were put on sale.Sold out in less than an hour.
Can’t wait.
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Old 8 Feb 2022, 10:14 (Ref:4097766)   #72
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Assuming for a moment that the people who commission, design and pay for tracks are not all idiots (I know…just run with it…) why ARE they built the way they are? Not a rhetorical question - I don’t know. Some random thoughts:

- because they work for the 99.99% of motorsport that is not F1
- safety
- technical challenge
- demands of TV
- good spectator viewing
- logistics of access
- non-racing activity (track days etc)

I don’t know. But there must be a logic to it because tracks are not being designed and built at random.
I think a lot of it is that they just don't place it high on the priority list, the track layout is like an afterthought. Its like Abu Dhabi, the centrepiece of that track is the hotel complex, it was built and then they had to weave a track around it. Another anti-racing track is that Russia abomination. Not designed to be racing circuit at all, and it shows. You could argue that, this is a consequence of moving racing to street type venues and I think that's partially true, you can only do so much with a street layout, but having said that, Monaco is a great circuit, I think Baku doesn't deserve the hate it gets either.
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Old 8 Feb 2022, 13:29 (Ref:4097789)   #73
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I think a lot of it is that they just don't place it high on the priority list, the track layout is like an afterthought. Its like Abu Dhabi, the centrepiece of that track is the hotel complex, it was built and then they had to weave a track around it. Another anti-racing track is that Russia abomination. Not designed to be racing circuit at all, and it shows. You could argue that, this is a consequence of moving racing to street type venues and I think that's partially true, you can only do so much with a street layout, but having said that, Monaco is a great circuit, I think Baku doesn't deserve the hate it gets either.
You make a good point. It just seems they need a track to make a GP happen in the country, so they don't try that hard with the layout in some places
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Old 8 Feb 2022, 14:54 (Ref:4097811)   #74
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You make a good point. It just seems they need a track to make a GP happen in the country, so they don't try that hard with the layout in some places
This reminds me of what my wife would tell me about her prior job when she worked for a commercial "design/build" firm. Design/Build means you have your own in-house architecture team along with your own construction team. So they would have had total oversight of the entire solution.

With the initial sales pitch, you would see artist renderings of the solution. It would commonly show plush landscape elements. Shrubbery, flowers, large mature trees, etc. But when they start trimming the budget the first thing that goes is the landscaping because things like the building, parking, etc. are higher priority. If there is local rules then they meet the minimum and nothing more. So in the end, the landscaping would be mostly just grass and maybe a few small (cheap) trees.

My point is that in the end, these tracks are commonly part of large projects that have a lot of requirements, sometimes conflicting requirements and an implied or explicit pecking order of what is important. They may have to fit a lot into a small footprint. And if this includes construction of buildings beyond what is required to support the track (such as a hotel, etc.) then sadly, I can imagine that the actual track layout becomes second priority at times. Even if the track was to be the core element.

Lastly, I fully expect all (or a majority) who work at Tilke's firm are likely enthusiasts and want to deliver a quality product. I do suspect they are facing conflicting requirements at times. If asked to just "design a track" they probably would do a decently good job.

Richard
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Old 8 Feb 2022, 15:02 (Ref:4097812)   #75
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Lastly, I fully expect all (or a majority) who work at Tilke's firm are likely enthusiasts and want to deliver a quality product. I do suspect they are facing conflicting requirements at times. If asked to just "design a track" they probably would do a decently good job.
I should have also added above. I don't know how much competition Tilke's team has. So given they seem to get a lot of business. There is also no doubt some level of comfort in what they provide. Meaning. while there is criticism, they don't really have enough pressure to do better. I know there are others who work in the space. I think what Tilke needs is someone to start eating their lunch and making them hungry to do better.

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