Chevron B19

[Simon Hadfield]

And tragically it only occurred to me after I posted, and I've fitted the blasted things!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Chevron B19, 1971 #172 Liberty Taverns/Andrew MarkerANDREW MARLER?

Marler it is, thank you.

[Alan Brown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Oulton Park 9 Apr 1971 (MN 15 Apr 1971 p14)


Thruxton Yellow Pages Trophy Race 12 Apr 1971 (MN 15 Apr 1971 p11)

D. DART Racing with Castrol: John Miles
H. Worcestershire Racing Association: John Bamford
J. John Lepp
and possibly others; it's a short report.

These were the only three B19s to compete (all listed in the programme as 1798 FVC and colours blue, orange and red respectively). Four others did not appear. They were, with the appropriate programme information:
Graham Birrell/DART B19 FVC 1798 blue
John Burton/WRA B19 FVC 1978 orange
Richard Shardlow B19 FVC 1798 FVC red
Tony Beeson B19 BDA 2000 blue

The latter one intrigues me. Did it ever materialise, or was it a figment of someone's imagination.

PS This has been a truly fascinating thread. All power to the various experts.

[Ted Walker]

Surely Phil Scragg had the B19 Alpina new and prior to Tony Bancroft. ????

[allenbrown]

Alan, does that mean you were there that day? With camera? Or notebook?

[Alan Brown]

I was at the meeting, so I dug the programme out yesterday. I tried to keep the programme as up-to-date as possible, but no chassis numbers. Siffert was easily the fatest car in a green 917. I attempted a lap chart, but incomplete. All except Miles and Lepp (second and third) lapped. Siffert started lapping cars on his sixth lap of the 25 lap race.

"Those were the days"

[driftwood]

"Those were the days" when sex was safe and motor racing was dangerous!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Above: Phil Scragg in the B19 BMW at Harewood in 1974.

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Surely Phil Scragg had the B19 Alpina new and prior to Tony Bancroft. ????

Ted, With Scragg running the car in 1974 and MacDowel being in it throughout 1975 when do you think Tony Bancroft had it?



I was quoting Tony Mason's Uphill Racers which, due to the Yorkshire connection, I would assume to be correct.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

Siffert was easily the fatest car in a green 917

Cruel but true.

[Alan Brown]

...and not the slowest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr. Alexander Lienau]

It might be interesting that the B19 with the BMW 3 Ltr. engine is owned by the swedish Driver Kent Abrahamson who used the car occassionally in the Orwell Series.
The car is nowadays white, but a few years ago it appeared for the last time at the oldtimer Grandprix driven by a swedish friend of Kent. At that event the engine block was destroyed. I am not sure, if Kent found the time to repair the car because he usually races his blue B19 (with BDG engine).

[Simon Hadfield]

And can I add John Garnett to the list of owners of the 3 litre car, entered for him by Bearings (Non-Lube) Ltd and once hillclimbed during his ownership by John Noakes and the results shown on Blue Peter! My informant thinks it may have gone from Garnett to Thwaites. The same informant thinks Reg Phillips also had a standard 19 at one point, as well as previously a B8 which they then "spydered" (this would have needed a hacksaw....) And as an aside the car was originally ordered by a Dieter Bentz for Interserie, the deposit paid and then for some reason never collected.

[driftwood]

would the B8 spyder then qualify to be a B8S or a Gropa!

The bottom line here is that the 3 litre car is ab19 with kent and teh yank selling B21-72 -27 is offereing some great BS in his sales pitch

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

And can I add John Garnett to the list of owners of the 3 litre car, entered for him by Bearings (Non-Lube) Ltd and once hillclimbed during his ownership by John Noakes and the results shown on Blue Peter! My informant thinks it may have gone from Garnett to Thwaites.

Simon, so does this mean that the B19 Alpina went from MacDowel to Garnett? Also was the owner not DAVE Garnett rather than John?

[Simon Hadfield]

Yes, he meant Dave, he will be taken out at dawn and shot.....as for it going from MacDowel to Garnett he is not absolutely certain.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

Yes, he meant Dave, he will be taken out at dawn and shot.

Pity, we will miss his contributions.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

The bottom line here is that the 3 litre car is ab19 with kent and teh yank selling B21-72 -27 is offereing some great BS in his sales pitch

One step at a time please. We haven't established yet how the B19-Alpina got from MacDowel to Garnett and then how it got from Garnett to Abrahamson. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone found another 6-cyl BMW and decided it would be fun to stuff it in a B19.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by henk4

Pity, we will miss his contributions.

When's the funeral?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

One step at a time please. We haven't established yet how the B19-Alpina got from MacDowel to Garnett and then how it got from Garnett to Abrahamson. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone found another 6-cyl BMW and decided it would be fun to stuff it in a B19.

According to Chris Mason in UPHILL RACERS on the 15th May 1975 "... while Tony Bancroft made a class-winning return at the wheel of his old Chevron B19 which was now owned by Yorkshire bearing manufacturer David Garnett."

Then in his review of 1980 Chris states "the MP43 ... was commissioned by David Garnett. The Yorkshire thermoplastic bearing manufacturer had enjoyed considerable success with the old Chevron-Alpina B19, which he intended to keep for 'guest drivers', but was now aiming for new standards ....."

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

So to turn it around so it makes more sense:

B19.71.3 Richard Shardlow ('AB')
B19.71.4 WRA: John Bamford ('H')
B19.71.5 DART (either 'C' or 'D')
B19.71.6 DART (either 'C' or 'D')
B19.71.7 Red Rose: John Bridges ('F')
B19.71.8 Red Rose: John Hine ('E')
B19.71.9 Central Garage Mirfield: John Lepp ('J')
B19.71.10 John Burton ('G')
B19.71.10A Ed Swart ('I')
B19.71.12 Chevron Cars: Craft ('A')
B19.71.16 Siffert: Larrousse ('M')
B19.71.22 Oldenkott Tobaco: Clemens Schickentanz ('P')
B19.71.24 Duckhams: Terbeck ('Q')

Hine's rebuild does appear on the list as B19.71.25 but another Red Rose rebuild appears as B19.71.23 so it's still too early to call 'O'.

Quite a few observed cars are missing.
B. The late 1970 works car so I wouldn't expect it to appear
K. Sunfresh Racing Team: Cyr Febraio/Jean Ortelli
L. Scuderia Brescia Corse: Carlo Facetti/Eric Tondelli
N. Toine Hezemans 'brand new' at Hockenheim 4 July - never seen again
R. Hasag: Heinz Derflinger at Wunstorf 15 Aug - maybe too late for this list
S. Reg Philips Shelsley Walsh 15 Aug - maybe too late for this list
W. Giovanni Alberti/Mario Casoni at Monza 1000 km 25 Apr

The two Italian cars ('L' and 'W') will be amongst the many Tondelli cars on the list. The Febraio car is a puzzle but I do have one or two clues to follow on this. The Toine Hezemans Hockenheim car may also be a Tondelli car as Hezemans joins the Osella-Abarth team shortly after. The Derflinger car is likely to be a Siffert customer car. The Reg Phillips car is a puzzle - Steve, do you know how long he kept it?

I have been trying to establish the origins of the B19 list that Nigel sent and it has been positively identified as Derek Bennett's original hand-written list. I have also been sent the second half of the list so can now put numbers to a few more letters.

S. Reg Philips Shelsley Walsh 15 Aug = B19.71.28
T. works/Redman at Nurburgring 5 Sep = B19.71.27
Y. Andrew Fletcher at Jarama 7 Nov = B19.71.31
AA. Dirk Marias/John Abrahams = B19.71.30
AE. Peter Humble ("brand new 1972 B19") = B19.71.34

Now that I've authenticated the list, I can add a couple more that didn't make 100% sense when I first saw the list:

AD. Marathon Oil: van Beuren/Junco ("an almost brand new car") = B19.71.2

It's also worth pointing out that the number 70-S-10 does appear on the chassis list as a car originally intended for the US but delivered to Siffert instead. This ties in exactly with the claimed history of the Barons auction car. Some here may have been a bit quick to rubbish that car.

Finally, after further conversation with Nigel, we know that:

R. Hasag: Heinz Derflinger at Wunstorf 15 Aug = B19.71.3

This leaves us with:
B. The late 1970 works B16S so I wouldn't expect it to appear
K. Sunfresh Racing Team: Cyr Febraio/Jean Ortelli (see 70-S-10 above)
L. Scuderia Brescia Corse: Facetti/Tondelli (a Tondelli car)
N. Toine Hezemans 'brand new' at Hockenheim 4 July (maybe a Tondelli car)
O. Red Rose Racing: John Hine (brand new - replacing 'E' at Croft 10 July)
U: Michel Dupont
V: Stefano Buonopace (another Tondelli car)
W. Giovanni Alberti/Mario Casoni at Monza 1000 km 25 Apr (another Tondelli car)
X. Red Rose Racing: John Bridges ("a brand new 1972 model B19") at Jarama 7 Nov
Z. Mike Hailwood/Chris Craft (B19B-Vega)
AC. Marathon Oil: Craw/Barber (converted B16 so I wouldn't expect it to appear)

The list is littered with Red Rose rebuilds: B19.71.23, B19.71.25 (Hine), B19.71.29 (rebuild of 25), and B19.71.32 (rebuild of 8) so 'O' and 'X' will take more time to figure out. Also B19.71.26 is given as "Red Rose (SA)" implying that the car Red Rose took to South Africa, which I have as 'F' (B19.71.7) was a new car. Or of course SA could indicate South America.

We're getting there slowly.

[allenbrown]

Drifty - do you know what B19s appeared in Japan in 1971?

[allenbrown]

B19 drivers in the Orwell Cup the last nine seasons.

2000

Andreas Schönberg #13
Dr.Alexander Lienau #29

2001

Gualtiero Giribaldi #15
Dr.Alexander Lienau #29

2002

John Grant
Mike Catlow
Dr. Alexander Lienau
Steven Arnold
Bruce van der Merwe
Kent Abrahamsson
Jonas Quarnstrom
Simon Wayne
Gualtiero Giribaldi
Armando Paes
Gösta Petterson [Chevron-Alpina]

2003

John Grant #1
Ross Maxwell #21
Simon Wayne #24
Steven Arnold #25
Dr.Alexander Lienau #29
Dick Waaijenberg #30
Richard Piper #31
Mike Catlow #32
Bruce van der Merwe #35
Kent Abrahamsson #36
Gösta Pettersson #82
Helen Bashford #85
Gualtiero Giribaldi #86
Colin Pool #89

2004

Ross Maxwell #21
Jan Brunstedt #22
Dr.Alexander Lienau #29
Dick Waaijenberg #30
Richard Piper #31
Mike Catlow #32
John Grant #33

2005

Robert Harvey [BMW] #19
Ross Maxwell #21
Jan Brunstedt #22
Vincent Rivet #25
Dr.Alexander Lienau #29
Dick Waaijenberg #30
Steve Hodges #31
Mike Catlow #32
Chris Roche #33
Sandy Watson #35
Kent Abrahamsson [BDG] #36
Gualtiero Giribaldi #38

2006

Ross Maxwell (London) #21
Vincent Rivet #25
Dr.Alexander Lienau #29
Dirk Waaijenberg #30
Mike Catlow #32
Chris Roche #33
Sandy Watson #35
Jonathan Loader #36!
Kent Abrahamsson [BDG] #36
Jan Brunstedt #81
Steven Arnold #85
Charlie Agg & Ian Jones #90
Robert Harvey #91

2007

Vincent Rivet #25
Dr.Alexander Lienau #29
Dirk Waaijenberg #30
Mike Catlow #32
Chris Roche #33
Sandy Watson #35
Robert Harvey #36
Kent Abrahamsson [BDG] #37
Kevin Wilkins (Norwood Hill, London) #47
Gualtiero Giribaldi #81
Ian Jones #85
Steven Arnold #86
Jonathan Loader #90

2008

Vincent Rivet (Soucieu en Jarrest, France) #25
Dr.Alexander Lienau (Munich) #29
Peter Meyrick #33
Sandy Watson (Dalgety Bay, Scotland) #35
Jonathan Loader (Chippenham, England) #36
Kent Abrahamsson (Göteborg, Sweden) #37
Jan Brunstedt #78
Dirk Waaijenberg #80
Mike Catlow #88
Steven Arnold #96

How many claimed identities can we list for these? Presumably some are continuation cars - are the owners open about this?

[driftwood]

Mike Catlow is chassis #8
Richard Piper is #30 now with J Loader was S hodges in between
steve arnold#4
Ross maxwell#3
Dr A leineu#10 how could u not be aware of that!!!
Kent Abrahamssom who knows i think he has 2 or 3 cars and NJ has just bought the "real"#3?
Charlie Agg rented helen malkies car at silverstone classic 06 0r 07


simon wayne note from earlier thread
“Fangio said” I raced in 1992/3 and possibly 1994 I sold it in april 1998 to the UK (Simon Wayne). He purchased from Gerard Burggraf Belgium I think it was in South Africa for some timei think only 3 cars staye din ZA i think this may be the john lowe/love car?


also more info from this thread early on
Monte Haslett said I purchased "B19/1" from Corrado Cuppellini in Bergamo, Italy with a FVA in 1988 or 1989 used in Italian hillclimbs, don't recall it having chassis plate We restored the car raced it successfully - mid-1990's it was sold to Mark Leonard (Grand Prix Cars Ca.)
I also bought another B19, Chassis number???? (I have to look to see what I can find in my files) in late 1980's from Monza, Italy. It was sold to another racer by the name of Kopf.


Cars in Japan i will make a list later do u have notes in the list against rising sun cars?

[driftwood]

The list is littered with Red Rose rebuilds: B19.71.23, B19.71.25 (Hine), B19.71.29 (rebuild of 25)do u mean 27 that was rebuild of '8?, and B19.71.32 (rebuild of 8)contradicts what has been "suggested "earlier so 'O' and 'X' will take more time to figure out. Also B19.71.26 is given as "Red Rose (SA)" implying that the car Red Rose took to South Africa, which I have as 'F' (B19.71.7) was a new car. Or of course SA could indicate South America. Highly unlikely the brazlians made a ruling in 70 or 71 on Importing non Brazilian built cars and HIGH import taxes so they built cars locally with UK purchased parts at the most


Re Tondelli cars how man cars off the list are marked down for Tondelli?
I suspect of the 3 drivers you list i think maybe all share 1 or 2 cars

Y. Andrew Fletcher at Jarama 7 Nov = B19.71.31 unusual note- Tucket /Fletcher had the B16 dismantled and used parts to make their own B19 but this is too late in the year for them

[Steve Wilkinson]

My head hurts!