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Old 8 Jan 2016, 23:26 (Ref:3603237)   #51
S griffin
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Pirro was definitely the best driver of the Golden Age who never raced in the BTCC. His record in Italy and Germany speaks for itself
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Old 9 Jan 2016, 16:46 (Ref:3603328)   #52
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Originally Posted by porsche962fan View Post
why no love for Pirro ?

he was a great in the 80s too !! not just the 90s

he had some great results in Schnitzer team in the old 635 and then in BMW M3 starting from 1987 to about 1992

for example he won the 1990 Spa 24 Hours race
He's mentioned early in the thread!

One of the quickest without any doubt!

Quickest driver might be another thread as quickest doesn't always equal 'best'.

Bob Ravioli wasn't always the quickest but he was one of the most consistent and canny racers and deserves most people's nomination as ome of the best.

Pirro was quite often employed in key races as a hare/torpedo because he was bloody fast. Bit like Berger in mid 80's!

None of the current BTCC lot would get anywhere near a top 10 except Menu and Giovanardi in their heydays over 10 years ago and perhaps Shedden or Turkington. The others are a load of glorified club level racers.
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Old 9 Jan 2016, 18:48 (Ref:3603347)   #53
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Roberto Ravaglia also comes to mind, he was twice champion in Group A racing and very strong driver in Super Tourer days too, he won the Spa 24 hours in 1994 in a super Tourer and 1995 Nurburgring 24 hours and italian champion of 1993
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Old 9 Jan 2016, 18:52 (Ref:3603349)   #54
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Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
None of the current BTCC lot would get anywhere near a top 10 except Menu and Giovanardi in their heydays over 10 years ago and perhaps Shedden or Turkington. The others are a load of glorified club level racers.
I am sure Turkington and Shedden are just as good as those Super Touring guys


you forgot Matt Neal in his heyday as he is the only privateer to win in Super Tourer race

and many forget but Matt was 1995 Indy BTCC champion
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Old 9 Jan 2016, 21:24 (Ref:3603383)   #55
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The other thing you have to bear in mind is that some drivers shine in one kind of motorsport but not another. For example, Tom Kristensen never quite found his feet in the BTCC or the DTM, but is "Mr Le Mans" now.

Personally, I think he would have been blistering in F1, but that's for a different thread.
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Old 9 Jan 2016, 21:31 (Ref:3603385)   #56
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
you have other example Riccardo Patrese, F1 champion in 1995 he did STW Cup in a works Valvoline sponsored Ford Mondeo

http://www.marshals-vdhb.be/sites/de...f6a05ca180.jpg

despite doing whole season he collected less points than most part-time drivers finishing season 35th in points...
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Old 9 Jan 2016, 23:56 (Ref:3603403)   #57
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To be fair to him, Ford was having all sorts of problems that season. They tried to develop a 4WD car that didn't work at all, and his teammates Boutsen and Nissen couldn't do much better. Only Asch in the Eggenberger limousine FWD car had a decent season.

On topic, I think some drivers who had their success outside BTCC might count as the most underrated. Pirro has already been mentioned but Cecotto might well be another one, he had a bad year in BTCC but was always one of the best in the German championship. Uwe Alzen was also a good driver in the German league, always the best of the Opels and fairly entertaining to watch too.
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Old 10 Jan 2016, 12:39 (Ref:3603473)   #58
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Riccardo himself has said it doesn't matter how good driver you are, you have to be a bit of a specialist to be successful in tim tops.

As for TK you say he never found his feet in DTM and BTCC, well hang on he did win three races in his one season of BTCC and not only was he also a winner in DTM, he also was twice in the top three in the championship
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Old 10 Jan 2016, 17:12 (Ref:3603509)   #59
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Originally Posted by porsche962fan View Post
I am sure Turkington and Shedden are just as good as those Super Touring guys


you forgot Matt Neal in his heyday as he is the only privateer to win in Super Tourer race

and many forget but Matt was 1995 Indy BTCC champion
IIRC eal had a pretty close to works spec Primera and it was a smaller field when he won that race.

I am sure he would admit he ain't no Steve Soper, Andy Rouse, Win Percy or Roberto Ravaglia in their pomp.
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Old 10 Jan 2016, 19:17 (Ref:3603524)   #60
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To be fair to him, Ford was having all sorts of problems that season. They tried to develop a 4WD car that didn't work at all, and his teammates Boutsen and Nissen couldn't do much better. Only Asch in the Eggenberger limousine FWD car had a decent season.
Asch actually won the Nurburgring sprint race and came 2nd in main race


did he have works backing or Ford only backed the 4WD cars ?

as far as I know

Team Schubel had works backing with Boutsen and Patrese

Kris Niesen both part-time first for Wolf Racing and then Schubel also a Mondeo 4x4 but not sure if he had works backing , Claudia Hurtgen also drove for Wolf Racing so I assume she was works driver ?


Roland Ash and Johhny Hauser drove the normal Modeo for Eggenberger, I know Hauser was classified as a privateer but no idea on Asch !!!! my suspicions come because they say Philip Peter in an Audi 80 was best privateer !! but Asch finihed way ahead of him in the overall standings


Wolf Racing also entered a 3rd Mondeo but a FWD for Enrico Bertaggia in 2nd season half, he was classified as Privateer


in 1996 things were clearer , Schubel was sole works Ford team with Warren Hughes and Roland Asch

Wolf Racing lost works backing and they entered later the season as privateers with Claudia Hurtgan and Wolgang Treml

after another disaster season Ford got cold feat and no Ford whatsoever in 1997 season
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Old 10 Jan 2016, 22:55 (Ref:3603561)   #61
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Pirro was definitely the best driver of the Golden Age who never raced in the BTCC. His record in Italy and Germany speaks for itself
And got in a V8Supercar on the Gold Coast a couple of years ago and was as good, if not better, than the other international stars around him, with almost no testing, and having never seen the track before...

Top class act...!
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Old 12 Jan 2016, 10:56 (Ref:3603994)   #62
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as for Frank Biela , ironically he won the french series in 93 and BTCC 1996 but he never won the german series
He did, however, win the DTM in '91
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Old 12 Jan 2016, 16:55 (Ref:3604103)   #63
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He did, however, win the DTM in '91
http://stillphotography.co.uk/galler...3/dtm91_45.jpg
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Old 17 Jul 2018, 21:54 (Ref:3837193)   #64
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Nononsensecapeesh should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Rydell, at least he was one of my faves.
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 16:57 (Ref:3952768)   #65
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iceman-1987 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My answers are:
Toughest: Aiello/Menu
Best Engineer: RML/ Audi Sport
Best Development Driver: Pirro/Menu
Most Entertaining: H.J. Stuck / Thompson
Most Melodramatic: Radisch
Most Stressed Out: Winkelhock
Most Relaxed: Pirro
Did the most with his talent: Cleland
Did the least: Morbidelli
Most underrated: Abt
Most overrated: Radisich, Van Ommen
Dirtiest: Asch light year farest from the rest of other drivers, Winkelhock (he pushed off Biela in World cup 1994 and in last round of STW in 1995), Morbidelli
Cleanest: Pirro, Aiello, Menu
Best: probably Aiello and Menù who are the only 2 driver to win a championship with 2 differents manufactures
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 17:00 (Ref:3952770)   #66
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
nobody mentioned Mike Briggs ?

won the the south african title in 93, nearly won it in 94 , won it in 95, was the only guy to put up a fight to the mighty A4 Quattos in 96 season

Last edited by porsche962fan; 22 Jan 2020 at 17:06.
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 17:05 (Ref:3952772)   #67
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nobody mentioned Smoking Jo ?
The post above mentions him as 'Most stressed out'!
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 17:14 (Ref:3952774)   #68
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
and another guy who may be underrated a bit

Yvan Muller

runner up in 94 french series, won it in 1995 , 4th on 96 italian series , then drove with an uncompetitive FWD Audi a few years and then got succes with 888 in BTCC
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 17:20 (Ref:3952776)   #69
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The post above mentions him as 'Most stressed out'!
Hardest - Frank Sytner
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Old 22 Jan 2020, 20:55 (Ref:3952820)   #70
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Coloni_Subaru has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
No pariticular order

Menu,Rydell,Aiello,Plato
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Old 23 Jan 2020, 00:07 (Ref:3952842)   #71
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Menu was great out front, but got in a few incidents when in the pack, so would hardly call him the cleanest, great as he was
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Old 23 Jan 2020, 01:35 (Ref:3952845)   #72
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Originally Posted by porsche962fan View Post
and another guy who may be underrated a bit

Yvan Muller

runner up in 94 french series, won it in 1995 , 4th on 96 italian series , then drove with an uncompetitive FWD Audi a few years and then got succes with 888 in BTCC
Could you please learn how to write? Reading your posts is infuriating, no capital letters, unnecessary spaces everywhere, particularly when using question marks, terrible, lazy spelling. I refuse to believe you don't have access to a spelling checker.
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Old 23 Jan 2020, 07:55 (Ref:3952870)   #73
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Hardest - Frank Sytner
I certainly agree with that and would add arrogant to the description too - he was always the fastest man down the pit lane, even in open practice!
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Old 23 Jan 2020, 08:03 (Ref:3952875)   #74
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Originally Posted by iceman-1987 View Post
My answers are:
Toughest: Aiello/Menu
Best Engineer: RML/ Audi Sport
Best Development Driver: Pirro/Menu
Most Entertaining: H.J. Stuck / Thompson
Most Melodramatic: Radisch
Most Stressed Out: Winkelhock
Most Relaxed: Pirro
Did the most with his talent: Cleland
Did the least: Morbidelli
Most underrated: Abt
Most overrated: Radisich, Van Ommen
Dirtiest: Asch light year farest from the rest of other drivers, Winkelhock (he pushed off Biela in World cup 1994 and in last round of STW in 1995), Morbidelli
Cleanest: Pirro, Aiello, Menu
Best: probably Aiello and Menù who are the only 2 driver to win a championship with 2 differents manufactures



I believe, you saw too less races of Roland Asch. Maybe you only saw the strange move with Christian Abt. But that wasn't Roland Asch, like he was elsewhere.


And with Pirro...i heard, that there are different opinions with him, especially in Italy.
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Old 23 Jan 2020, 10:15 (Ref:3952891)   #75
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Could you please learn how to write?
Whoa there, horsey. This forum is better than that.

If you have issues with the substance of a post, by all means contest them but there's no need whatsoever to flame someone for their writing style.

Have you ever considered that some Tenthers might have accessibility difficulties with their sight, reading, comprehension or writing and the way they present their posts is to work around those issues?
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