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Old 2 Aug 2017, 10:39 (Ref:3756887)   #1
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Reorganising the Sportscar & GT Racing Forum

Hello!

So before I post this: thank you to the staff who run this place. I'm aware this request isn't that simple because of the amount of threads involved, but I do think it would improve the situation greatly!

The Sportscar & GT forum is becoming far too cluttered to work. The amount of series active in that one forum means we're cycling through threads too quickly, and active threads are being pushed down 3-4 pages and being lost. So then other threads end up far too off topic and being ruined. Sportscar racing also tends to have limited schedules (5-10 races for most), so sometimes you have a month between races, by which time the thread has disappeared 4 pages back. Just yesterday I was looking for the WEC 2017 thread (the biggest sportscar series in the world, arguably!), and it was on page 4.

Right now we have WEC, ELMS, IMSA, Blancpain, all the regional and national series, and big stand alone events like Bathurst 12hrs, plus all the relevant technology/vehicle threads in one section.

So I'd propose this solution.

-Sportscar & GT Racing Forum
--24 Hours of Le Mans
--ACO Regulated Series (WEC, ELMS, Le Mans Cup, AsLMS, etc)
--North American Racing (IMSA, PWC, etc)
--Prediction Competitions

New subforum for ACO racing, and a new subforum for North American racing. Anything else (Blancpain, Super GT, etc) stays in the default Sportscar & GT Forum.

That way we can keep the areas focused and hopefully have a bit more organisation, because at the moment it's a mess trying to find what is being discussed where - and part of that is not being able to find the relevant thread as it's 3-4 pages away.

Again, I'm aware of the work involved in that, but I think it'd improve the section massively. Thoughts?
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 10:42 (Ref:3756890)   #2
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Many thanks for your suggestion, if anyone else has suggestions or thoughts regarding that forum then please let us know. Please keep this thread to discussions on just the Sportscar & GT Racing forum as I know there is also another thread discussing the merits of Formula E having a separate forum.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 14:52 (Ref:3756961)   #3
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As I have written before, I support the changes.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 19:02 (Ref:3757002)   #4
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As a mod of the Sportscar & GT Forum, I'd be happy to support Akrapovic's suggestions (and it therefore goes without saying that I'm also happy to migrate threads as necessary).
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 19:12 (Ref:3757006)   #5
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As a mod of the Sportscar & GT Forum, I'd be happy to support Akrapovic's suggestions (and it therefore goes without saying that I'm also happy to migrate threads as necessary).
I considered not posting the suggestion, as I know what a ridiculously massive task it would be to move it all. So even if this doesn't happen, a big thanks to you and anyone else who would be involved.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 21:18 (Ref:3757050)   #6
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Sounds like a good plan - lot of work for the mods and really appreciate the willingness to do it.

Whilst making the changes, I suggest that the Australian GT Champ thread gets moved back to the Australasian section and if needs be removing the "touring cars" from the Australasian section name. That way single-seater threads re Australasian series can go back there too.

I'm a bit torn on whether that should happen IMO for the Bathurst 12 hour as it gets more international interest but it probably makes sense for it to be moved back as well for consistency.

As most of the posters and interest on those threads is from down under & the news relevant to them from down under as well, it makes it way easier to find for we Antipodeans, spot anything new and have the discussion - it also assists in de-cluttering the Sportscar & GT Forum.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 21:54 (Ref:3757063)   #7
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All the topics remain, it's all about whether it'll be easier for us all to find what we want.

I'm in many sub forum anyway so it probably won't make much difference to me. Are others up for it?

Happy to move all the threads around if needed.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 23:40 (Ref:3757085)   #8
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I'm all for it, and would happily moderate the IMSA section if needed.
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Old 5 Aug 2017, 20:59 (Ref:3757633)   #9
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This isn't a bad thing (on site or in the real world), but there's so many racing series in road racing, too. You have various GT series, IMSA, the WEC, various professional and pro-am series. It's an amoeba who's tentacles are all over the place.

We also have to view this from Akrapovic's view point. He's now the owner and writer for a motorsports news site. He's about the only guy I can name (other than Marcel and Graham from DSC) who visits here.

Of course, the sportscar area is also full of rumor and speculation discussion threads. Granted, that does fill in the time between races, since there's often sizable gaps between events. It's not like NASCAR where there's a race almost every weekend from Feb-Nov, and F1 that has races every other weekend it seems from March to Nov.

I'd also suggest maybe having a dedicated rumor/speculation sub area, and one for news, though I can see where that might be a problem (too much sub division).
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Old 6 Aug 2017, 21:42 (Ref:3757877)   #10
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Rather than that, I prefer to have multiple threads per series, like in other forums. Having the new subforums allow the different threads to exist without getting lost.
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 02:26 (Ref:3757905)   #11
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I wouldn't like this change. It is pretty rare that race weekends overlap and the race threads are always sticky threads. If there's a problem now it is that people don't seem to make new threads e.g. about news stories, instead discussion goes on in the 100-page threads started years ago and topic titles do not always anymore reflect what is being talked. I'm not sure new subforums would would change this behaviour much, so the result is just more "fragmentation".
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 13:23 (Ref:3757972)   #12
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Threads about sports car racing are too big, it'¿s impossible to read them. We need more threads that are more specific. And that requires having more subforums.
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 17:31 (Ref:3758023)   #13
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Thanks all for the feedback, keep it coming. It is clear that whatever solution will be a compromise.
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 17:42 (Ref:3758029)   #14
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I certainly agree with the comments about some of the very long threads - even as a mod, I can only dip into them and reading threads of that length from the beginning is a bit like War and Peace...... (quite literally, sometimes! )
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 18:11 (Ref:3758037)   #15
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I certainly agree with the comments about some of the very long threads - even as a mod, I can only dip into them and reading threads of that length from the beginning is a bit like War and Peace...... (quite literally, sometimes! )
Sometimes with less peace

Would creating sub forums allow for more, shorter threads? If we start doing more focused but shorter threads with the forum in its current state, wouldn't we lose threads even quicker?
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 18:29 (Ref:3758039)   #16
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You get 20 odd threads per index page, currently those threads cover everything.

By Sub-foruming off some categories, that will give each of those it's own index page so in fact it will keep more of the latest posts in each category on it's own 1st index page and easier to find.
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 18:49 (Ref:3758046)   #17
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Sometimes with less peace

Would creating sub forums allow for more, shorter threads? If we start doing more focused but shorter threads with the forum in its current state, wouldn't we lose threads even quicker?
It's a circular argument I guess, if threads are popular and members want to post to them, they won't go too far down. Survival of the fittest. But e.g. threads which detail the history of a particular car (or evolutions of cars) which span several years aren't particularly useful - especially for newer members...
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 19:03 (Ref:3758048)   #18
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Like I said, I'll happily moderate the IMSA section if needed - only if so I can get around the editing time limit for my IMSA race threads, so I can update entry lists.
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Old 7 Aug 2017, 23:04 (Ref:3758071)   #19
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Not to mention that we've had threads here that proved popular that have been here forever. The LMP1 evo/future rules thread dates back to 2007 I think. Of course, there's a newer one that got started, but that's directed at LMP1 right now (though I see where the threads should probably merge).

But as I said, that original thread dates back to 2007. Car threads are also a few years old. The Audi LMP1 thread covers three designations of car (R10, R15, R18 series), 7 or 8 generations of car, and was started back in 2008. Toyota thread covers three main generations of car and dates back to 2011. The Porsche thread is newer, but also about 4-5 years old.

Also, could there maybe be a technical sub-forum? I know that we have a motorsports technology thread, but a lot of the threads in the sportscar section do revolve around technology.
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Old 9 Aug 2017, 20:14 (Ref:3758458)   #20
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Would creating sub forums allow for more, shorter threads? If we start doing more focused but shorter threads with the forum in its current state, wouldn't we lose threads even quicker?
I think yes. Given the current number of members writing about sports cars, we have some big threads where several topics are mixed up. Having more specific threads would hep to improive the conversation.

For example, the IMSA DPi thread can have messages about the new Penske / Acura project, Joest replacing Speedsource as Mazda partner, Pipo Derani replacing Ed Brown at Extreme Speed, the unfair balance of performance, possible Petit Le Mans entries, and the possibility of the ACO accepting them for the 24 Hours of Le Mans. It's a mess.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 12:55 (Ref:3758618)   #21
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I think yes. Given the current number of members writing about sports cars, we have some big threads where several topics are mixed up. Having more specific threads would hep to improive the conversation.

For example, the IMSA DPi thread can have messages about the new Penske / Acura project, Joest replacing Speedsource as Mazda partner, Pipo Derani replacing Ed Brown at Extreme Speed, the unfair balance of performance, possible Petit Le Mans entries, and the possibility of the ACO accepting them for the 24 Hours of Le Mans. It's a mess.
Isn't that more about where people post information than the layout? Just because people don't or won't put things in the right place adding new areas won't necessarily mean less clutter or on topic posting.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 14:10 (Ref:3758624)   #22
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Isn't that more about where people post information than the layout? Just because people don't or won't put things in the right place adding new areas won't necessarily mean less clutter or on topic posting.
You might be right with that.

Is it because these ultra long threads are too generic now? We've got a DPI thread, an IMSA 2016/2017 thread, an IMSA 2018 thread, an IMSA 2018 Calendar thread. So where does the news of the Mazda DPi moving to Joest go? Could fit in any of those, and would probably be discussed in them all, thus spreading the conversation about too much.

If NA racing had its own forum, would it be better to make threads more specific - so a Mazda DPi thread, which makes it easier to know where to post it?

I don't know of course, just thinking outloud. There's also a thought process that suggests that if you make sub forums, they'll get less traffic as people ignore deeper level forums. If that happens, you could just put ACO Sportscars and NA Sportscars under the "Saloon and Sports Racing" type forum, between "Sportscar & GT Racing" and "Australian Touring Cars"?
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 19:38 (Ref:3758672)   #23
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You might be right with that.

Is it because these ultra long threads are too generic now? We've got a DPI thread, an IMSA 2016/2017 thread, an IMSA 2018 thread, an IMSA 2018 Calendar thread. So where does the news of the Mazda DPi moving to Joest go? Could fit in any of those, and would probably be discussed in them all, thus spreading the conversation about too much.

If NA racing had its own forum, would it be better to make threads more specific - so a Mazda DPi thread, which makes it easier to know where to post it?

I don't know of course, just thinking outloud. There's also a thought process that suggests that if you make sub forums, they'll get less traffic as people ignore deeper level forums. If that happens, you could just put ACO Sportscars and NA Sportscars under the "Saloon and Sports Racing" type forum, between "Sportscar & GT Racing" and "Australian Touring Cars"?
More subforums could help with this, but I wouldn't expect this behaviour to completely change. If it doesn't then we still have same the issue than now but with more clutter.
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Old 12 Aug 2017, 17:20 (Ref:3759006)   #24
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That's a problem where similar discussions take place in other threads because one subject can fit into several threads. We have two LMP1 threads basically (LM future rules and LMP1 future), the DPI/IMSA 2017/IMSA 2018 thread that Akrapovic mentioned as an example, and the various LMP1 team threads (TMG, Porsche and Audi Sport if someone wants to resurrect that thread).

I don't know if having dedicated WEC/LM24, team, and IMSA threads is what we need. Maybe NA vs International as suggested. The LM24 itself has it's own subforum.
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Old 13 Aug 2017, 18:52 (Ref:3759197)   #25
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So we all agree with having a North American subforum, right?

Now, my opinion is that the FIA WEC has plenty of ongoing discussions. But there's plenty of other sports car championships as well, which get relegated in the thread list. Having a FIA WEC / ACO subforum would allow the threads about GT3, GT4, Super GT and other championships to be more visible.

Yes there's a "GT3 manufacturers" thread. But there's a dozen manufacturers. The 2017 Blancpain GT thread has 22 pages, which makes it difficult to follow the different discussions in it.
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