IMSA Race 2018 Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring presented by Advance Auto Parts - Mar 14-17

[Hammerdown]

Yes, the BoP seemed to work rather well for the DPI field, but looks like they’ve left the P2s out of the plan. Would be a shame to see them not bother to turn up because there’s no chance of being competitive.

[CyberMotor]

Enjoyed this one. No Fox and my iPad is too old for the app so listened to Radio Lemans and used the incar videos to watch and follow the action.

One time, I had just got everything working and I tuned into Corvette with Garcia driving and coming around 17. Plenty of noise and action and then suddenly it went quite. I checked my speakers, checked my connections and nothing was working. Garcia was there yelling, it looked like, and I couldn't hear a thing. No one was running around, the car was not the jacks and no driver change. You could see the frustration in Garcia's eyes as it looked as if nothing was happening. Finally, a crewman opened the passenger door and you could see relief in Garcia's eyes. In a minute, a battery was changed and things fired up and there was sound again. It was like watching a silent movie there for a few minutes!

Saw a very interesting thing happen at night. In the darkness and reflected lights, a smooth surface on one car suddenly took on a golfball dimple effect at speeds of around 145-150+. When the car slowed, the surface became smooth again. They switched cameras after a couple minutes! Anyone ever seen anything like this or heard of it?

By choosing the different car cameras, I got to see a lot of action. That was fun.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by RedSquirrel

Ran out of time to edit
Here's an example of RLM's incompetence: https://twitter.com/CautionClock20/s...81482082873344
They repeatedly mis-identified the car that hit the tyres in the middle of the road as the #55 Mazda. That Mazda is dark red, has green and white ID lights the whole length of the fin and its tail-lights are on the wing endplates.
The car that hits the tyres is mostly white, has a single red ID light on top of the engine intake and its tail-lights are on the cheese wedges. It is therefore Romain Dumas in the CORE Oreca.

RLM do have small monitors (compared to us with our multi-screen HD home setups), and the audio is about 2-3 seconds behind the video at times. I think RLM just have a lot to concentrate on when they're in the booth now days, so mistakes are creeping in a little.

Yeah, there's mistakes, but it's better than IMSA without them. The first year of IMSA.tv, the TV crew kept repeating the 'fact' that the Mazda LMP was the first ever diesel Prototype. If RLM stop being part of IMSA.tv, I stop watching.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Yes, the BoP seemed to work rather well for the DPI field, but looks like they’ve left the P2s out of the plan. Would be a shame to see them not bother to turn up because there’s no chance of being competitive.

IMSA BoP an embarrassing waste of time - di Resta

https://www.autosport.com/imsa/news/...p-embarrassing

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Yes, the BoP seemed to work rather well for the DPI field, but looks like they’ve left the P2s out of the plan. Would be a shame to see them not bother to turn up because there’s no chance of being competitive.

We can already say there's no reason for an LMP2 team to run the 12 hours instead of the 1500 or even really Petit instead of Fuji. They might still risk Daytona.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Chiana

IMSA BoP an embarrassing waste of time - di Resta

https://www.autosport.com/imsa/news/...p-embarrassing

Originally Posted by carbsmith

We can already say there's no reason for an LMP2 team to run the 12 hours instead of the 1500 or even really Petit instead of Fuji. They might still risk Daytona.

Hard to argue that the Lmp2's were not on the back foot. But what is bop done on? the potential performance of each car. In one of the practice sessions the Performance Tech Oreca was right there on pace. I seem to remember Ligiers complaining about the speed of the orecas at Le Mans as well. I still think the P2 cars will be okay on the rest of the season.

[Matt]

I mean let's not forget that Global spec cars finished P3-8 at Daytona, with the CORE car on the same lap as the two Cadillac's in front of it, and United Autosport was 4th, 4 laps back.

[CyberMotor]

Watching a lot of IMSA on ROKU. Way to go. Very entertaining.

The Sebring qualifying was really fun to watch. Seeing the P cars bouncing and coming off the ground around 17 was exceptional.

Great video.

A decade or so ago, a floater was put out by PR asking what could be done to make the sport more exciting and appealing? My suggestion was to put digital cameras everywhere you can in the car, and on the driver and teams.

I like the cameras on the GT cars because they are more stable and they get great views of the P cars coming by.

I'll also add the P cars have become beautiful from the rear.

Great seeing Joest and Penske back in the sport. The Masters have recognized a good thing was happening while realizing some 'tweaking' needed to be done.

Congratulations to IMSA/NASCAR/Panoz. You have figured out a good formula.

Keep tweaking but stop when enough is done and then let's all sit back and see what happens.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Matt

I mean let's not forget that Global spec cars finished P3-8 at Daytona, with the CORE car on the same lap as the two Cadillac's in front of it, and United Autosport was 4th, 4 laps back.

Yeah, there was three cars that ran mostly trouble free and the LMP2 was last among them by a significant margin. The #32 finished 4 laps back because of a clutch problem, otherwise UA was the best running LMP2 car much of the race despite their car not even having the pace of the ORECAs at Daytona. At Sebring CORE and United both ran trouble free and couldn't make the podium even with most of the DPis breaking or crashing.

Pace-wise LMP2 was nowhere at Daytona either.
http://results.imsa.com/Results/18_2...test%20Lap.PDF

Frankly the LMP2s being "okay" the rest of the year doesn't even matter. The races that count for having an international spec car are over and they made a mockery of said international spec. It's abundantly clear that any hope of a common top class between IMSA and WEC in 2022 to allow teams a chance at the major American enduros along with Le Mans is an utter pipe dream on the behalf of the ACO given the protectionist attitude that's been shown. That the boss of one of the manufacturers that has expressed interest in a common prototype platform (along with other possible manufacturer participation in the series)in the future is the owner of a team that's being run off here is incredible. They're being so vocal now because they came to Sebring expecting the BoP issues they'd stayed largely quiet about at Daytona would be rectified, not amplified.

One LMP2 car being fast one lap in practice doesn't invalidate the entire weekend of evidence to the contrary either.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Yeah, there was three cars that ran mostly trouble free and the LMP2 was last among them by a significant margin. The #32 finished 4 laps back because of a clutch problem, otherwise UA was the best running LMP2 car much of the race despite their car not even having the pace of the ORECAs at Daytona. At Sebring CORE and United both ran trouble free and couldn't make the podium even with most of the DPis breaking or crashing.

Pace-wise LMP2 was nowhere at Daytona either.
http://results.imsa.com/Results/18_2...test%20Lap.PDF

Frankly the LMP2s being "okay" the rest of the year doesn't even matter. The races that count for having an international spec car are over and they made a mockery of said international spec. It's abundantly clear that any hope of a common top class between IMSA and WEC in 2022 to allow teams a chance at the major American enduros along with Le Mans is an utter pipe dream on the behalf of the ACO given the protectionist attitude that's been shown. That the boss of one of the manufacturers that has expressed interest in a common prototype platform (along with other possible manufacturer participation in the series)in the future is the owner of a team that's being run off here is incredible. They're being so vocal now because they came to Sebring expecting the BoP issues they'd stayed largely quiet about at Daytona would be rectified, not amplified.

One LMP2 car being fast one lap in practice doesn't invalidate the entire weekend of evidence to the contrary either.

Didn't know a minute and a half over whatever the final stint length was is a "significant margin."

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Yeah, there was three cars that ran mostly trouble free and the LMP2 was last among them by a significant margin. The #32 finished 4 laps back because of a clutch problem, otherwise UA was the best running LMP2 car much of the race despite their car not even having the pace of the ORECAs at Daytona. At Sebring CORE and United both ran trouble free and couldn't make the podium even with most of the DPis breaking or crashing.

Pace-wise LMP2 was nowhere at Daytona either.
http://results.imsa.com/Results/18_2...test%20Lap.PDF

Frankly the LMP2s being "okay" the rest of the year doesn't even matter. The races that count for having an international spec car are over and they made a mockery of said international spec. It's abundantly clear that any hope of a common top class between IMSA and WEC in 2022 to allow teams a chance at the major American enduros along with Le Mans is an utter pipe dream on the behalf of the ACO given the protectionist attitude that's been shown. That the boss of one of the manufacturers that has expressed interest in a common prototype platform (along with other possible manufacturer participation in the series)in the future is the owner of a team that's being run off here is incredible. They're being so vocal now because they came to Sebring expecting the BoP issues they'd stayed largely quiet about at Daytona would be rectified, not amplified.

One LMP2 car being fast one lap in practice doesn't invalidate the entire weekend of evidence to the contrary either.

Never mind the fact that EVERY DPi team is more professional, more prepared, better drivers than all of the international P2 teams. Sorry, but I think any IMSA P2 team would crush everything WEC or ELMS P2 has to offer. United can cry all they want but P2 teams have run close to the DPi teams on sprint races and know they aren't going to get it handed to them. But Euro teams show up and expect they can dominate and if they can't suddenly it's IMSA? It's flat bs and I personally hope they take off and stay off. I'm tired of the whining and crying life isn't fair. It isn't fair cause you aren't Rebellion and actually prepare to win. Please go back to the ELMS with your legion of fan.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Never mind the fact that EVERY DPi team is more professional, more prepared, better drivers than all of the international P2 teams. Sorry, but I think any IMSA P2 team would crush everything WEC or ELMS P2 has to offer. United can cry all they want but P2 teams have run close to the DPi teams on sprint races and know they aren't going to get it handed to them. But Euro teams show up and expect they can dominate and if they can't suddenly it's IMSA? It's flat bs and I personally hope they take off and stay off. I'm tired of the whining and crying life isn't fair. It isn't fair cause you aren't Rebellion and actually prepare to win. Please go back to the ELMS with your legion of fan.

You can say it better than I can.

[Matt]

Also, Penske should bring one of the other Oreca's they've got out to every race that the P cars compete at from here on out.

If any team *****es between sessions they could throw down fast laps in that car.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Never mind the fact that EVERY DPi team is more professional, more prepared, better drivers than all of the international P2 teams. Sorry, but I think any IMSA P2 team would crush everything WEC or ELMS P2 has to offer.

You can't be serious right? Have you forgotten what happened when ESM went over to WEC, for example?

I think there are amazing teams on both sides of the Atlantic but this just seems like a lot of denial about the imbalance between normal P2s and DPi cars. To just broadly dismiss a team like United to further your own agenda is disingenuous at best.

[MaskedRacer]

It could also come down to familiarity with track and series too. Aston Martin came into GTLM a couple years back and got beaten badly at Daytona and Sebring.

[MaskedRacer]

Big hat-tip to the youtube channel called "Jarenson". Hours of onboard footage from Sebring of the #91 Porsche 911 RSR

[Ospi]

Laughing at the comment re European and American teams.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

You can't be serious right? Have you forgotten what happened when ESM went over to WEC, for example?

I think there are amazing teams on both sides of the Atlantic but this just seems like a lot of denial about the imbalance between normal P2s and DPi cars. To just broadly dismiss a team like United to further your own agenda is disingenuous at best.

Personally i think the UA car had quite a good driver lineup and I consider them a professionally run team. Didn't they win the first 2 races of the ELMS last season? But I also think the Ligier is still slightly uncompetitive vs the Oreca. It was last year on most tracks in the WEC at least. They have struggled with top speed last season and there are a couple long straights at Sebring, even if it isn't the fastest circuit on the schedule.

At Sebring I do agree the LMP2 cars seemed to be a half step behind the DPI cars. But I don't much care for the UA moaning about BOP for a couple reasons. First the Core Oreca finished 1 step ahead of them with Jon Bennett as a driver. I like Jon, but he isn't the quickest of the bunch. Second, I think the team was watching a different race than I was. In an article on S365 today Brown was quoted as saying

"“Like the drivers, the team made no mistakes in the pits, every stop was perfect."

Now if i recall correctly, I seem to remember a UA Ligier sitting in turn 17 during a restart after they made a mess of it. They were trapped behind the GT's trying to get a lap back and then spun on their own in the corner from carrying too much speed. This brought out another yellow even though the driver got it going after a minute. So not perfect.

I do understand that UA has more at stake (cost) bringing a car to a championship they don't compete in full time, while the Core guys (being a full time competitor) seemed happy with their result a few seconds ahead of UA.

Bottom line is IMSA is constantly tinkering with BOP as they feel they need to. The first 3 tracks on the IMSA schedule are about as different as you can get: Roval, Airfield, Street, so their job is tough. Well I guess it could be easier if BOP didn't exist, but the cars wouldn't exist if that was the case, so I try not to lose too much sleep over BOP.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Never mind the fact that EVERY DPi team is more professional, more prepared, better drivers than all of the international P2 teams. Sorry, but I think any IMSA P2 team would crush everything WEC or ELMS P2 has to offer.

Wew. That's quite an interesting claim when 3 out of the top 5 DPi race laps were set by drivers that primarily compete in WEC or ELMS. Apparently Filipe Albuquerque will cease to be one of the best drivers in the world and become some nobody Euro hack when he gets back in the United Autosports Ligier in a couple weeks.

Originally Posted by broadrun96

It's flat bs and I personally hope they take off and stay off.

But how will you tell us that IMSA is so much smarter and more popular than WEC when it only has as many prototypes as the latter has LMP1s because they treated the privateers like dirt?

I know some people don't want to think about this political stuff and I hate dragging it into their enjoyment of the race but the sheer denial about it from others is something I have a very hard time ignoring.

Originally Posted by joeb

I do understand that UA has more at stake (cost) bringing a car to a championship they don't compete in full time, while the Core guys (being a full time competitor) seemed happy with their result a few seconds ahead of UA.

I'd say the biggest difference is that while CORE is a prototype privateer team, they're still an IMSA factory team in another class and therefore the series is their gravy train and this is vanity side project. This is UA's main racing project with a lot of resources behind. With what they've spent to set up additional operations in the US for this, a lot of resources.

[Matt]

...and they got beaten - twice - by that "vanity side project" with Jon Bennett as one of the drivers.

[carbsmith]

Just because their livelihood doesn't rest on it doesn't mean they do a **** job.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

The races that count for having an international spec car are over and they made a mockery of said international spec. It's abundantly clear that any hope of a common top class between IMSA and WEC in 2022 to allow teams a chance at the major American enduros along with Le Mans is an utter pipe dream on the behalf of the ACO given the protectionist attitude that's been shown.

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

You can't be serious right? Have you forgotten what happened when ESM went over to WEC, for example?

I think there are amazing teams on both sides of the Atlantic but this just seems like a lot of denial about the imbalance between normal P2s and DPi cars. To just broadly dismiss a team like United to further your own agenda is disingenuous at best.

Originally Posted by Ospi

Laughing at the comment re European and American teams.

It's always good to stop by here on IMSA side for laughs, that is true

Just heads up before certain/certain parties come in mocking as they do, ALMS was my favorite series in the world but even in it's hayday with RS Spyders and HPDs challenging the Audis and gang I would have never made absurd, outrageous fanboy comments about the quality surpassing the European side by 100-0, whether that's in teams or machinery

Now, as for numbers, when the stock P2s run by "worse teams" bail out eventually once they got tired of always having the negative spectrum for the races that actually matter, leaving this series with a 10 car grid for the headline class just like in DP before the fusion, then let's see how much boasting there will be...

[TF110]

How many p2 teams won last year? I think it's obvious that the dpi's are favored in bop. It's apparent they're faster at the least. I don't buy it that it's all the team either. Whether they get more negative bop or not is to be seen, but right now they are the only ones capable of winning. I was glad to see Mazda up there at the front but there's always something that holds them back from the win. Maybe they'll get there this year.

[FormulaFox]

Regarding BoP levels...

http://results.imsa.com/Results/18_2...by%20Class.PDF
^ Fastest laps of the weekend over all sessions.

Notice the fastest LMP2 car is in sixth, nearly (but still less than) a full second off of the fastest DPi. But notice as well that...

1) The quickest DPi is 0.4s faster than the second quickest - this speaks volumes for the effects of setup.

2) That LMP2 was faster than one of the Acuras and both Mazdas - this speaks volumes for how the big the gap actually is.

Clearly, the DPis have a BoP advantage, but it's FAR closer than it was this time last year, and it is feasibly possible that a particularly good team could still find a setup and driver pairing to match the DPis, longshot though that may be.

In other words, although only one LMP2 driver managed to do so, the fact remains a lap time was posted that was right in the middle of the DPis. That simply wouldn't be possible if the BoP was as far off as is being claimed.

Put simple, the BoP needs work, but it's not the utter disaster many believe it to be.

[champcarman]

Slightly off topic, but how do most people rate the chances of the IMSA/WEC double header at Sebring 2019 actually going ahead? I thought there were representatives from the ACO and FIA there on the weekend to discuss the logistics etc so I suppose we will have to be patient. I am hoping to make a holiday in Florida next year for the St Pete Indy/ Sebring double and an IMSA/WEC double header could be the decider. If this is covered in another thread please excuse my lack of diligence.