[Driver] Ricciardo

[Tourer]

F1 is very much a fringe sport in Australia & being a technical sport, the casual observer would probably not understand why Webber was challenging for the WDC one year but well back the next.

Like any fringe sport, the media only cover good results from an Aussie point of view, so whilst Webber had plenty of people talking in 2010, the interest has dropped off in 2011.

[N.A-D.R]

Tourer said it perfectly. Webber will never take the nation since he isn't a dominate force like Stoner is in Moto GP for example. Especially this year where he basically just rocked up all year to get smashed by Seb, and I see it happening next year and for as long he continues Seb will just get better and better now. Aussies need an iconic driver in F1 who is a world champion for motorsport to really kick here. Like i said if Ricciardo can't manage it than we might have to wait a while again for another youngster to rise through the ranks.

You look at Moto GP and Motorbike racing in general over the past 30 years or so we have had quite a few legendary Aus riders and that's why we have many Aussies in motorbike racing to this day, and good riders too. F1 is missing that, we need more Sir Jack Brabhams and Alan Jones', and i can only see it happening if we get more successful drivers. THEN i guess Aus/NZ will be more interested and you will see more youngsters doing karting, and then more companies will see the benefits of it and all that development will progress. Ricciardo has a big chance to become a iconic hero really haha.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by N.A-D.R

Tourer said it perfectly. Webber will never take the nation since he isn't a dominate force like Stoner is in Moto GP for example. Especially this year where he basically just rocked up all year to get smashed by Seb, and I see it happening next year and for as long he continues Seb will just get better and better now. Aussies need an iconic driver in F1 who is a world champion for motorsport to really kick here. Like i said if Ricciardo can't manage it than we might have to wait a while again for another youngster to rise through the ranks.

You look at Moto GP and Motorbike racing in general over the past 30 years or so we have had quite a few legendary Aus riders and that's why we have many Aussies in motorbike racing to this day, and good riders too. F1 is missing that, we need more Sir Jack Brabhams and Alan Jones', and i can only see it happening if we get more successful drivers. THEN i guess Aus/NZ will be more interested and you will see more youngsters doing karting, and then more companies will see the benefits of it and all that development will progress. Ricciardo has a big chance to become a iconic hero really haha.

The other thing to bear in mind is that Aus also has a very strong domestic series in the V8s where the top drivers earn 7 figure salaries and have strong sponsor support. It is enough to give some of them pause for thought before risking everything and making the long and expensive journey to Europe to work their way up the ladder there. Some do though (and to the USA also - it wouldn't surprise me to find that either Will Power or Ryan Briscoe would be as good if not better than Mark Webber in the same car for example) and it is a brave move. Marcos Ambrose is to be applauded for taking the risks that he has and it's great to see it starting to really work for him.

You're completely right on the motorcycle front (add in dirt bikes and the likes of Chad Reed) as it is a high participation sport in Oz but relatively small time locally from a professional stand point - much less risk / more reward to head offshore and the costs, while substantial, are nowhere near as much as four wheeled motor sport.

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by St00ge

Well in Australia we use the name "clive brown" as a euphemism for having a **** "Just ducking out to drop off the Clive Browns, be back in 5"

I feel truly humbled by the dazzling incisiveness of your stunning wit....

Now Ricciardo might be "in" F1, but he's not exactly competing in F1 now, is he?

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by N.A-D.R

Ricciardo has a big chance to become a iconic hero really.

Until Vergne blows him into the weeds next year

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Now Ricciardo might be "in" F1, but he's not exactly competing in F1 now, is he?

Course he's competing - might be only in effect against his team mate (up till now) due to the machinery they're in but he's been competing.

At this stage, due to that machinery, there is no way of really knowing if he is the messiah or an also-ran. 2012 in a better team against a potentially fast team mate will give a much better indication of his potential.

Oh and Clive, you set the bar pretty low with your attempt at wit, leading to Stooge's response, so I guess that the comments from both of you deserve each other.

[N.A-D.R]

Originally Posted by Ostrogothicus

Until Vergne blows him into the weeds next year

Going to be a good battle. Vergne is favourite but I wouldn't sleep on Ricciardo just yet.

[OZ_HCR32]

Seems lot of people are waiting for the guy to fail. Shame as from interviews he seems a pretty down to earth, personable character.

He seems to have pace, seemed to quickly get up to speed and outshine Liuzzi in the POS HRT, something Senna couldnt do alongside Chandhok . So there is obviously some talent there...will have to wait and see how he goes.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by bella

what do you think it is about webber that hasn't captured the national imagination? do you think it would take a multi-talented uber-marketable jaime alguersuari type to do it, or is it just someone the young can relate to?

F1Rejects called him "AussieBrit", maybe that has something to do with it Casey goes all out on a bike, maybe it's spectacular enough to have people just sit back in awe and go OZI OZI OZI?

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Oh and Clive, you set the bar pretty low with your attempt at wit, leading to Stooge's response, so I guess that the comments from both of you deserve each other.

In my experience, Australians generally have a well-balanced view of the world; they have a chip on both shoulders. Whether it's because they come from a minor country stuck at the butt end of the world, I don't now, but somehow, they have to bull themseves up the whole time as world-beaters when to everyone else, they are some way off the world standard.

I've got a lot of time for Mark Webber, but he should have been a World Champion by now, having become #1 at Red Bull after David Coulthard retired. Now Ricciardo doesn't even come close to Webber's standard, so just where does he rate?

In my view, the last great Australian driver was Alan Jones; now there was a man.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

In my experience, Australians generally have a well-balanced view of the world; they have a chip on both shoulders. Whether it's because they come from a minor country stuck at the butt end of the world, I don't now, but somehow, they have to bull themseves up the whole time as world-beaters when to everyone else, they are some way off the world standard.

I've got a lot of time for Mark Webber, but he should have been a World Champion by now, having become #1 at Red Bull after David Coulthard retired. Now Ricciardo doesn't even come close to Webber's standard, so just where does he rate?

In my view, the last great Australian driver was Alan Jones; now there was a man.

Agree on AJ - at least in F1 terms - there have been quite a few others who raced different machinery but would not have come to the attention of those in Europe so much - guys that AJ struggled to beat or who beat him when he came home.

I'm with you on Mark too - I suspect that his opportunity to be WDC is gone but he's not one to give up so still may surprise in that regard. Judging Ricciardo against Webber based on half a season in the world's slowest F1 car is far, far too early so only time will tell us where he rates.

As it's already Christmas day down here, I'll leave your cliche cheap shot alone as the same can be said for every nationality in many ways and there's no point bouncing around low level rubbish like that.

[Clive Brown]

I'd love it if Webber could rebound in 2012 and become WDC, but to be honest, I can't see it happening now all the time that Vettel can walk and talk. I think that Webber's window of opportunity has slammed shut in his face.

[maximus]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

I've got a lot of time for Mark Webber, but he should have been a World Champion by now, having become #1 at Red Bull after David Coulthard retired. Now Ricciardo doesn't even come close to Webber's standard, so just where does he rate?

How can a rookie with 1/2 a season in F1 in a back marker team get near Webbers standard!? What point are you trying to make?

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by maximus

How can a rookie with 1/2 a season in F1 in a back marker team get near Webbers standard!? What point are you trying to make?

He's really looked no better than his erstwhile team mate, and nothing about him has really screamed out "I deserve to be given a chance in a better car."

If he proves me wrong, then great.

[maximus]

He regularly beat his more experienced team mate who had been in the car all season, what more would you expect? I think he did enough to prove his worth. Plus he was no slouch in the junior series either.

[N.A-D.R]

Ricciardo has so much more potential than Mark, just compare both CV's in junior categories... I wouldn't be surprised if you gave Ricciardo a few races in a Red Bull he'd start beating Mark too. Mark is over-rated in my view. Hes nothing more than a good steerer, he'll never be a WDC. His best chance was to beat Vettel when Vettel was having too many mechanical problems and making mistakes. Alonso's Ferrari wasn't good enough and was hanging on by consistency, Webber still couldn't do it even though he only retired like twice and had the best car?

I found it interesting when the HRT engineers talked about Ricciardo, saying he never really pushed the limits and seemed like he had pace still within him. Hes actually never crashed an F1 car, or even had a spin before, good record to have! I think he really just wanted seat time and if he pushed too hard and made mistakes he could of wreaked his F1 career basically. When you consider that and still dominated Liuzzi then kinda makes you question. How good is he? Hard to tell in a HRT. But he'll be up against Vergne and there will be no better team-mate in my view. Both wanting to destroy each other, we will see just how fast is Ricciardo and if he can unlock that so called speed which the engineers claim hasn't been used yet. It's going to be a good battle!

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

In my experience, Australians generally have a well-balanced view of the world; they have a chip on both shoulders. Whether it's because they come from a minor country stuck at the butt end of the world, I don't now, but somehow, they have to bull themseves up the whole time as world-beaters when to everyone else, they are some way off the world standard.

I've got a lot of time for Mark Webber, but he should have been a World Champion by now, having become #1 at Red Bull after David Coulthard retired. Now Ricciardo doesn't even come close to Webber's standard, so just where does he rate?

In my view, the last great Australian driver was Alan Jones; now there was a man.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by N.A-D.R

But he'll be up against Vergne and there will be no better team-mate in my view. Both wanting to destroy each other, we will see just how fast is Ricciardo and if he can unlock that so called speed which the engineers claim hasn't been used yet. It's going to be a good battle!

It's going to be war imo!! I don't think i'm being overly dramatic when i say that one driver could win the ultimate prize, replacing Webber in the Red Bull while the other driver loses his seat a la JA/SB.

[St00ge]

haha whatever Mr Bown...

[Clive Brown]

In the words of another great Australian racing driver, Frank Gardner, "When the flag drops, the bull**** stops." So we shall see whether Ricciardo is high performance, or just hype....

It's difficult to assess just how good the Torro Rosso seat is. Young Vettel certainly performed well there, yet Alguersuari, who had a great record in the junior formulae, never really stood out.

[Tourer]

True that Clive - Frank's words will always ring true.

On the Torro Rosso, wasn't the one Seb drove allegedly a Newey design with a different engine whereas the more recent cars are TR's own design?

Still a much better car than an HRT though and a car that gives the drivers some scope to show what they can do.

Re results in lower categories - they don't mean much when they get to F1 - the apprenticeship is over & the real job starts. Some just feel at home in an F1 car (take Mansell - nothing standout in lower cats but so suited to F1) and some just seem to be lost (take Bourdais - SO strong in other cars but never looked comfortable in F1). It'll be one of the features of 2012 - seeing how these two measure up.

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

In the words of another great Australian racing driver, Frank Gardner, "When the flag drops, the clive browns stops." So we shall see whether Ricciardo is high performance, or just hype....

I agree, I have not been sprouting for or against Ricciardo in any one these threads.. I am happy to wait and see how he goes next year..

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by Tourer

... I'll leave your cliche cheap shot alone as the same can be said for every nationality in many ways and there's no point bouncing around low level rubbish like that.

What will be real interesting is whether STR with the extra funds they picked up mid year cant compete with Sauber and PI this year. The talk on BBC was their mid-end of year pace was courtesy of a blown diffuser better than the rest of the mid field teams.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Mr V

It's going to be war imo!! I don't think i'm being overly dramatic when i say that one driver could win the ultimate prize, replacing Webber in the Red Bull while the other driver loses his seat a la JA/SB.

i don't see the second losing their seat for 3 years yet, till carlos sainz jnr or lewis williamson deliver to red bull's satisfaction. they now have the time to really develop both guys as potential future champions. if of course, they need the development. they might just *do it*.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by bella

i don't see the second losing their seat for 3 years yet,

Ok, it will be 3 years before one of these young uns F1 career is over!!!