Farewell GT1?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I agree with your take on Detroit mostly!!?? But GM(Cadillac) has ventured into prototypes before.

Yeah ..... i just wish they had put as much effort into their LMP1 project as they do into their GT1 project !!!

[AU N EGL]

Didn't the ACO and FIA mandate specific fuels? and that only these specific Petrol or Diesel blends from Shell suppler could be used? Too keep fuel consistance between teams.

Also the FIA and ACO are looking into bio-fuels for the future?

[HORNDAWG]

Well there has already been talk about E-85 bantied around. And that is one of GM's pet projects at the moment. Also as to supplier questions:

quote;
Shell is a global group of oil, gas and petrochemical companies with a broad portfolio of hydrogen, biofuels, wind and solar power interests.

Our aim is to meet the energy needs of society, in ways that are economically, socially and environmentally sustainable. close quote;

It would seem that is not a large problem.
And the ACO is using alternate fuels already(diesel)! They realize that they need to explore the options of what is coming down the road in the future. I think that they have decided that we are at a juncture that cannot be dismissed. And are looking to preserve that which is the spectacle called LeMans! And if that means alternate fuel sources, so be it!! And I for one would like to see Sports Car racing continue.

L.P.

p.s. Diesel is big on the other side of the pond. You don't think bio-diesel is on the agenda? I would beg to differ.

[AU N EGL]

bio-diesel ?? I have a soy bean diesel refinery not 30 miles from my house in NC.

Just saying the FIA and ACO have mandated the two Shell fuels that can be used. ( NA uses Sunoco ) Very specific blends. and all cars must use these spefic blenned Petro and diesel blends. Not that Audi can have its own blend and Peguot can have their blend. One diesel blend One producer, Shell, all diesels must use the same blend, just as all petrol engines must use the same blend.

E-85 :lol: not for racing. not enough power produced and milage drops like a lead balloon. I drove an E-85 chevy subrban, no acceleration, fuel gage went down so fast. Yes it may produce less polutants, but you burn up almost twice as much fuel. So for every 1000 miles the vehical produces the same amount of polutants.

Straight ethonal is a differnt matter, as Cart uses ethonal fuel

[HORNDAWG]

Are these rules static? No! Five years ago you would have howled had someone suggested that the king of the hill in Sports Car racing would be a diesel!!!! Are the alternative fuels that are available to the public at this moment worth a poop as racing fuel? No! And the first post that mentioned the use of alternative fuels(mine) in this thread was speculative of FUTURE events in the life of GT-1 and Sports Car racing in general!!!! All speculative in nature and meant to be exactly that!

L.P.

[old man]

I think you American guys should realise just how big diesel is in Europe, big in the UK but even bigger in France and Germany. I have business resons to go to Canada and am amazed how few of the trucks my contacts drive are diesel (should I say oilers?). Small cars in Europe have diesel engines not just big ones, I think the smallest is about 1000cc but have not actually checked, Audi and Peugeot are both very big in small diesel engines. It is vital that a fuel is specified but when you have new fuel types coming in it becosmes a learning curve for the regulators as well as the engineers.

[ss_collins]

regarding fuel, well I think we all know that is the future - ultimatley hydrogen is the way we will all go I think, perhaps with electric being the alternative, meanwhile LPG, Ethanol, hybrids, bio diesels will all get thier day and night on the mulsanne.


Yes but you can't get a full grid of LMPs in either the LMS or ALMS and so you need the GTs.

The future of GT1 isgoing to be closely linked to these efforts, Porsche, Corvette and Ferrari are probably not vastly interested in anything other than Ethanol, even then its not that important - thier clients are not that interested in alternative fuels, thats a fact. However Honda, Nissan & Toyota all see them as essential, and are advanced with high performance hybrids. Again I suggest that (possibly restricted - or weight penaltied up) Super GT cars running against un-restricted GT1's would be very good for Le Mans, especially if the Vemac RD408-H finally comes out to play. Then you would have five works teams and GT2 to play with. Great sport no doubt with a look at the future too. Super GT cars also would be a bit calmer than normal as 1000km is the longest race they do at the moment.

However the big GT cars would certainly hassle the LMP2's a lot but that would make the racing very exciting indeed.

Super GT really has it right, read the rules on the website or watch some of it on Motors TV - you'll see that it works.

As for saying that LMP's can't fill a grid - yes they can - I'm sure you could think of 30 LMP1s & 2's that are floating about. There are four Radical SR9's for a start, 4 mk1 RS Spyders, 3 R10's... etc...

But a prototype only Le Mans just wouldn't look right.

[The Badger]

I like the way Le Mans is now , with the 4 classes . But with Group C1 & C2 it worked pretty well for years . Mind you , my first year there had 19 Porsche 962C ..... maybe a bit too much of 1 type chassis but I did like the 962C .

It did look right at the time .

[HORNDAWG]

Some of us are not unawares as to the scope of diesel in Europe! And I for one have been waiting for it to catch on over on this side of the pond.Some of the trepidation of using diesel is the smell and noise of the units. But I think that has more to do with the auto industy here, and the government/ gas industry than with modern diesel cars themselves. With the cost of refining you would think, that at least the Oil Co. would want to switch from gas to diesel.Since it does not take as much refining and they charge about the same.

I do not think that GT-1 will go away. But as to it staying the same is another question? I like the current rendition of GT-1, I like that they give P-2's a run for their money. I like to see that the performance levels of the classes overlap at top and bottom(of each)(mostly), so as to have a co-mingling of classes. This in my opinion is what allows the four classes to run together and not look disconnected thus achieving a single congruous race. This is one of many things that make LeMans class racing such a spectacle.

L.P.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Some of us are not unawares as to the scope of diesel in Europe! And I for one have been waiting for it to catch on over on this side of the pond.Some of the trepidation of using diesel is the smell and noise of the units. But I think that has more to do with the auto industy here, and the government/ gas industry than with modern diesel cars themselves. With the cost of refining you would think, that at least the Oil Co. would want to switch from gas to diesel.Since it does not take as much refining and they charge about the same.

A bit of it may have to do with not wanting to leave your car idling all night in the winter.
A neighbor used to leave his truck do that until some self centered dork complained about it.
It used to hum me to sleep.
Bob

[AU N EGL]

Diesel Fuels in europe are a far differnt blend then the diesel fuels in North America. Europien diesel fuels are much cleaner and the engines are much quiter.

Then the Tax issue. European taxes on diesel fuels are far less then on petrol fuels too.

The new low sulfer diesel blends in the US leave much to be deisired too. Cleaner?? jury is still out on that one, power is down significatly with the low sulfer diesel fuel. Bio-diesel from soy bean oil is an option. We have 4 bio-diesel refineries being built here in North Carolina.

The new petrolium fields in the eastern gulf of Mexico have shown to almost twice as much oil that is in the westen gulf of mexico. Petrolium reserves off the cost of Virginia and North Carolina, make the Saudia oil fields look small in comparison ( not drilled yet).

The three new petrolium deposties in the westen part of Saudia found during Gulf war (conflict or what ever one wants to call them) I & II again make the current Saudia petrolium deposts look small again.

Petrolium ( petrol or diesel ) or bio-fuels are more political then anything. Technology can and does make just about any fuel quite clean buring.

[JAG]

As of 2006-11-11 the average price of fuel in the UK is:

Unleaded 95 86.6p

Diesel 89.9p

Super Unleaded 90.0p

LPG 44.1p

If your buying an average family car the diesel model usually has better MPG AND performance.

[old man]

Surely where it gets cold enough to be a problem you have block heaters like my Canadian friends? It gets quite cold in parts of Europe as well

[HORNDAWG]

Yes! We do. And the running all night is an un-neighborly thing to do.

L.P.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by old man

Surely where it gets cold enough to be a problem you have block heaters like my Canadian friends? It gets quite cold in parts of Europe as well

Yes we do, people plug in gasoline engines also, but outlets are not always available, and people do not like stringing extension cords a fifty feet.
If a ped. trips over your ext. cord, you are liable.
Parking rules in some cities are horrid at best.

[Hammerdown]

Wonder if they leave the R10s idling all night - other than at LeMans!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Wonder if they leave the R10s idling all night - other than at LeMans!

Good one. Well 12 hours at Sebring.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Wonder if they leave the R10s idling all night - other than at LeMans!

You mean they were so far ahead they could just sit in the pits idling till the clock struck the final minutes.
Ah Teutonic efficiency.