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3 May 2008, 17:39 (Ref:2193296) | #1 | ||
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What has happened to...? (Group C cars)
I have had my "Endurance Racing 82-91 book for about 15 years now, I pick it up from time to time and wonder, where have some of these cars gone?
I know we have the Group C racing series back again with the usual Porsches, Jaguars, Spices, Tigas etc but I wonder about the other cars, the ADAs, I know that Lawrence Jacobsen had "02" and "03" was for sale the other month but "01"? The Ecosses, I know about. The CHEETAHs, very pretty looking 956/962-esque cars, etc. These cars have seemed to have disappeared, are they in private collections, museums or being raced some where that we don't hear about? I am talking about the more obscure C2 cars than anything. Does anyone know? Thanks. |
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These comments are my personal opinion, they do not reflect the views of others at Carr Racing. Born into racing! Will never leave racing, ever! Its in my blood! |
3 May 2008, 18:01 (Ref:2193305) | #2 | ||
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Ask in the "historic racing today" forum, there's some super knowledgable chaps and chappesses down there.
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Fred Mackowiecki- the one man I'd love to swap surnames (and talent) with. |
3 May 2008, 19:27 (Ref:2193363) | #3 | ||
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Would a nice forum moderator change it to the historic forum then please?
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These comments are my personal opinion, they do not reflect the views of others at Carr Racing. Born into racing! Will never leave racing, ever! Its in my blood! |
4 May 2008, 05:48 (Ref:2193536) | #4 | ||
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Quote:
http://www.louwmancollection.nl/ There used to be quite a few in Peter Kaus' Rosso-Bianco Collection in Germany but I think a lot were sold off a couple of years ago when the bulk of the collection was sold to the Louwmans Collection- a few pics (towards the bottom of the page) http://www.shmoo.com/~bmc/photos/Car...anco%20Museum/ I know what you mean though-there were a lot of cars built by small privateer teams, particularly in C2, and they all seem to have disappeared- one or two have appeared in historic Group C, such as Duncan McKay's Arundel/Bardon C2, and I think the C1 EMKA-Astons which appeared in historic Group C a few years back were for sale recently, but a lot of them seem to have disappeared. Sadly I reckon quite a few may have been lost- looking at the cars listed on the Group C Racing website for example, the entry for Carlo del Conte's ALD 06 mentions that it's the only surviving car- ALD built 8 chassis between 1985-91, so what happened to the others? http://www.groupcracing.com/cars/48 |
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4 May 2008, 10:26 (Ref:2193671) | #5 | ||
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A Gebhardt JC 85(?, black Lemon-Soda livery Jelinski car with IMSA GTP sticker) and ADA 02 are hanging on a wall next to Kouros Sauber C8 in Sinsheim museum.
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4 May 2008, 13:44 (Ref:2193790) | #6 | ||
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Thank you gents, I went to the Rosso Bianco Museum about 10 years ago with family friends, I got so excited when I saw the Kouros Sauber, it has always been my favourite Group C car, I have seen the C9 and C11 at the old Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart. On the same holiday we went to the Sinsheim Museum.
I know both Group 44 Jaguars are currently for sale and the NEWMAN Porsche is racing in the Group C championship now. I didn't know about the Louwman Collection in Holland at all, I saw the TS010 race at Le Mans. I am sure its worth a visit, once I become better maybe I'll try and go. |
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These comments are my personal opinion, they do not reflect the views of others at Carr Racing. Born into racing! Will never leave racing, ever! Its in my blood! |
5 May 2008, 12:36 (Ref:2194365) | #7 | |||
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03 is for sale, here is a pic of it: http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewimage.php?photo=16247 Here is 03 in the British C2 championship in 90 http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-09-16-030.jpg Last edited by rcarr; 5 May 2008 at 12:40. |
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These comments are my personal opinion, they do not reflect the views of others at Carr Racing. Born into racing! Will never leave racing, ever! Its in my blood! |
5 May 2008, 19:32 (Ref:2194583) | #8 | |
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I know a lot of IMSA Camel Lights cars(similar to C2) got chopped up in 1993, 1994, 1995 to make World Sports Car chassis.
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Wolverines! |
5 May 2008, 20:00 (Ref:2194609) | #9 | |||
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This seems to have happened alot over the years, why? is the eternal question! We owned a supposedly Simpson C2 tub for a while, unused but it was certainly more than a Sports 2000 or a Thundersports tub. It was very well made but no chassis plate which made me sceptical of it, however the Simpson chassis' were apparently Chevron derived? There was 1 car that made it into a couple of races but another chassis that was never used, maybe the ours? |
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These comments are my personal opinion, they do not reflect the views of others at Carr Racing. Born into racing! Will never leave racing, ever! Its in my blood! |
5 May 2008, 20:34 (Ref:2194643) | #10 | |||
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Quote:
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5 May 2008, 20:37 (Ref:2194645) | #11 | |||
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Quote:
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These comments are my personal opinion, they do not reflect the views of others at Carr Racing. Born into racing! Will never leave racing, ever! Its in my blood! |
6 May 2008, 01:11 (Ref:2194800) | #12 | ||
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Quote:
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Wolverines! |
12 May 2014, 21:13 (Ref:3405621) | #13 | ||
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ALD C289 Chassis 02 is for sale in the UK through Phil Stott Motorsport
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12 May 2014, 23:15 (Ref:3405656) | #14 | ||
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You have to remember by the mid 90s these cars weren't worth much. In that period the only seriews you could run them was Interserie where they were uncompetitive. I guess some of the C2 oddities ended up hillcliming etc.
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13 May 2014, 19:41 (Ref:3405980) | #15 | ||
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The original Dow Corning EMKA Aston Martin that briefly led the 1985 race and bet the works Jaguar entry is with me und undergoing a comprehensive rebuild.
That is still the last Aston Martin engined car to have actually led the race. Something that AMR has not managed since then despite spending considerable money. Rudolf |
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14 May 2014, 08:42 (Ref:3406127) | #16 | ||
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Rudolf, it's great that the EMKA Aston is in safe hands and look forward to seeing it out again.
However ........ whilst the rest of your comments may be baldly factual, they hardly reflect the true situation 1) The EMKA wasn't really that much on the pace, only finding itself first briefly due to being on a different pit stop strategy and the Jaguar it beat was the Group 44 XJR 5 which whilst it had Jaguar backing was not works designed or built car. 2) The late 1980s AMR 1 was actually a very good car and getting better; it's AMR 2 replacement would almost certainly have been on the pace but there was no way that Ford were going to throw money at two teams and allow an in house competition with the Jaguar XJR series which it also owned and was already better established 3) Astons return to racing in 2007 was a Dave Richards initiative and financed by ProDrive, not an AM financed one and was in the GT class anyway 4) When they entered the Lola Aston it was petrol driven and was not allowed a performance break to match the diesels. Nevertheless it was 4th overall and first in the petrol class, in 2009 5) By his own admission, Dave Richards says that the recent AMR -One spyder was a 'screw up'. 6) They are back to GT Classes now, so not after outright wins. So, not only have most of their entries been in a class where the lead, let alone an outright win was not on the cards, you would have to conclude that the expenditure of 'considerable money' was not remotely on a par with the other manufacturers. Ah, I feel better now! Now back to group Cs Last edited by John Turner; 14 May 2014 at 08:52. |
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14 May 2014, 09:58 (Ref:3406142) | #17 | ||
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pieter melissen |
14 May 2014, 12:35 (Ref:3406194) | #18 | ||
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John,
I readyly admit, that my comment about Astons at Le Mans was a bit tonge in cheek, as was the orginal stunt that Micheal Cane pulled when they shortened their pitstop to lead the race in 1985. The EmKa Aston Martin spent a lot of time in the top 5 during that race and certainly was not slow, otherwise there would have no way to get the car into the lead. Later during the race the EmKa Aston Martin lost time in the pits due to minor niggles otherwise it would have finished higher up. This was mainly due to lack of money and development, proper testing would have prevented that. Still that year, in 1985, it won the Motor Trophy for the first british car home. I think the achievement of that car and that crew are totally underrated, given their resources. Yes, AMR had much less money to spend than their rivals, and can rightly be proud of their achievements. But is that applies to AMR, this applies even more to EmKA as they had much, much less money. Anyway, after this interesting look back, the thread show go back to "Historic Racing Today". BTW: The EmKa will be ready next year. Rudolf |
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15 May 2014, 08:02 (Ref:3406506) | #19 | ||
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Rudolf, I agree entirely that the achievements of the EMKA Aston are underrated and I really look forward to seeing it back on the tracks next year.
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16 May 2014, 07:03 (Ref:3406853) | #20 | ||
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Three here, so they are about:-
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...c_286_336.html http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...undegardh.html Sorry if this duplicates any previous posts Last edited by John Turner; 16 May 2014 at 07:13. |
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16 May 2014, 18:59 (Ref:3407032) | #21 | ||
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This weekend Frank Lyons races one of the two Gebhardt's built at Spa.
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pieter melissen |
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