AUSTRIA'S Trivia - Lap 2

[AUSTRIA]

First lap was obvious to hard. Come on, folks and friends, try this one:

Question A)
In the first half century of motorsport there was the term 'Voiturette'. What kind of racing-car was a voiturette ?
For the Bonus-point: f.e. The first race with 'Voiturettes' and its winner? Who created the term?

Question B)
Enzo Ferrari first was a driver. Which cars (category, make) did he run and where ?
For the Bonus-point: f.e. How did his carreer go on ?

Question C)
Next weekend we have the Brazil GP. Who knows, when was the first GP in Brasil. Was it counted to the worldchampionship?
For the Bonus-point: f. e. The origins of the Interlagos-Raceway

E.T.

[Hans.ca]

I'm guessing but I think the term you use in question A was used to describe cars in an engine size limited formula. In 1939 it was for 1.5 liter normaly aspirated cars. For example the Mercedes 165 winner of the Tripo;y GP.
The rest of the questions I have no idea.

[Binnas]

Question A)
it whas a hill climb car, and it whas a name for "the little trailer". first race in Paris 1898 and the winning place was taken by Louis Renault.

[Michael M]

Q A:
The French term „voiturette“ was used rather often in the early years of motoring, and described a small car (which is exactly the translation of „voiturette“. The term was first created by Leon Bollee for his threewheeler, but later also used by other car makers. Later De Dion-Bouton achieved registration of trade mark for this term. Also the 1898 Renault was a „small car“, but no racing car.
When the ACF introduced new regulations for automobile racing in 1906, the term „voiturette“ was fixed for the small class of racing cars, let’s say the „second league“. Engine capacity was 1500 cc, but the other details of the specification changed various times. Famous voiturette racers had been the Alfa-Romeo 158, Maserati 4CL, ERA, MB W165, Bugatti 39, and Delage 1.5 ltr.
Concerning the first race, it should be specified whether you mean a race only for voiturettes, or a GP with separate voiturette classification.

Q B:
CMN (Costruzioni Meccaniche Nazionali) in Milan, racing debut 1919 at the Parma-Berceto race, and the Targa Florio that same year. In 1920, he moved to Alfa Romeo, where we worked as test driver, racing driver, later sales man, and finally director of the Alfa-Romeo racing department. In 1929 he founded the Scuderia Ferrari at Modena, which was in fact the Alfa works racing team.

Q C:
The question is “first GP in Brazil”, not “first GP Brazil”. This was the GP Sao Paulo in 1936, won by Carlo Maria Pintacuda of Scuderia Ferrari. There was no world championship then. The first post-war GP was on 28 May 1950 at Interlagos, which did not count for the WC.
In 1938 the company “Autoestradas SA” decided and started to built a race track at Interlagos.

Note for Hans:
The voiturette class was not normally aspirated, they had also been supercharged, at least in the 30s, and some cars like the Delage already in the 20s.



[This message has been edited by Michael M (edited 21 March 2000).]

[Testa Rossa]

Question A

The Voiturette category was created January the first 1934, being a kind of Formula 2 to the 750 kg main formula for Grand Prix cars. The cars were monoposto (monoposti ?) of 1500 cc with supercharged engines. Some voiturettes : ERA (in 1500cc form), the Maserati 4C and 6C range, the MG K3 or the Alfa Romeo Tipo 158.

Maybe was the Avus Rennen (support race of the Grand Prix of Avus) May 27, 1934 the first voiturette race ? It was won by Veyron in a Bugatti T51A.

I propose Charles Faroux as creator of the name Voiturette. (whitout much hope...)

Question B

Ferrari was a test-driver for CMN (Costruzioni Meccaniche Nazionali). His first race was Parme-Berceto (October 5th 1919), and he finished fourth in class. The same year he was nine at the Targa Florio. The next year Ferrari celebrated his association with Alfa Romeo by taking second place at the Targa. His first victory would come in June 17th 1923 at Savio. He would also won the
Coppa Acerbo in 1924. After being a non-starter with a P2 in the French GP in 1924 for a nervous breakdown as reveled in a Press Conference in 1976, Enzo understood that he would never be an all time great. (as a driver...) Despite driving in minor events until 1931, he will soon be more buzy with
the gestion of his Scuderia...

Question C

I have found a Grand Prix of Sao Paulo in 1936 : (so of course NCh)
Pintacuda, Alfa Romeo 1
Marinoni, Alfa Romeo 2
de Teffe, Alfa Romeo 3

PS : The Interlagos track was created in 1940.


Testa Rossa

[Testa Rossa]

Bloody Hell !!

I have just seen that a guy called Michael M.
was a faster trigger than me!

Congratulations Michael

Testa Rossa

[Florian Lacroix]

I am so impressed about your answers. What can I say ???

[AUSTRIA]

Yep, Florian, I agree with you ! Fantastic stuff, the guys brought in. But I'm missing jarama and Tim a bit !!

It's time to give you some pennies! I'm no more sure, that it was a good idea to install a scoring system .. but let's go!

Question A)
Michael M: "The term was first created by Leon Bollee for his threewheeler, but later also used by other car makers. Later De Dion-Bouton achieved registration of trade mark for this term. Also the 1898 Renault was a 'small car', but no racing car." Very good! Bonus point!

Here is a picture of this first 'voiturette':



It really was no racing-car. Week powered, but very light and quick. To understand, what happened in this early days of racing, we must know the following:

The Paris-Marseille-Paris Trail in 1896, in retrospect named II GP de l'ACF, was the first race, which was run in (four) different classes:
- class A - cars series 1 - fourseaters
- class A - cars series 2 - twoseaters
- class B - trikes over 100 kg (only de Dion trikes competed)
- class C - trikes less than 100 kg (only Bollée trikes competed)
Bollée named his vehicles 'voiturettes' - so to call a type - no category by that time!

In 1897 the organizers of the Marseiles-Nice-LaTurbie Race decided to part the two motorcycle-classes (all were tricycles) in the classes 'tricycles' and 'voiturettes'. But it was just different from the 1896-facts: The heavier DeDion were 'voiturettes' and the Bollée voiturettes were 'tricycles'.

In 1898 the cars were parted in the weight-categories 'heavy cars' (over 400 kg) and 'light cars' (less than 400 kg). The cycles had their own classes. No voiturette-class!

From 1899 on the earlier 'light cars' (between 200 and 400 kg) got 'voiturettes', and since then the 'voiturettes'-class was the second best class (later 'formula 2') behind the 'cars'-class, which later got the 'Grand Prix'-class. (yeah Michael, so early!)

In the II Circuit des Ardennes Races in 1903 (last week the 50. Circuit des Ardennes was held!) first time the voiturettes run their separate race, won by Louis Wagner on his Darracq.

But voiturettes raised not until the late thirties, when the french and italian competers lost fun to be only the listfillers behind the unfightable german GP-cars and changed fron GP-racing to voiturette-racing (and to the sportscars also). At that time voiturettes had 1500ccm-supercharged engines; Michael and Test Rossa already listed the best cars.

Hey Testa Rossa, Mr. C. Faroux was a good try

How to decide? Hans.ca came with half a right answer; then Binnas with unfortunately no match; then Michael with very good stuff; Then Testa Rossa, but 62 minutes to late. What to do? I must pay regard to the sequence of postings. I'll part the point for the right answer between Hans.ca and Michael and give the bonus point to Michael. Sorry Binnas and Testa Rossa.

Question B)
I have nothing to add. If you want more of the stuff, there are so many good books describing Enzo's life ...

Question C)
You know, it's always the one I have no answer. No need, we have well knowing people out there as you can see.

Only a question to Michael: Where is the GP in Interlagos 1950 recorded? I can't find anything, nor do anybody of the guys I asked. Was it a sportscar-race? Give us the results please.

How to decide? Both really good. When I came in, I saw the posts of Michael and Testa Rossa. Testa Rossa 62 minutes later, Michaels post edited. I surely don't assume Testa Rossa, doing some copy from above, nor do I assume Michael adding some facts afterwise. Come on, it's only a game, don't take it to serious. Fun is the important thing!!! Fifty-Fifty, ok? 3,5 point for both.

Well, and the TenTenth Bonus-point? Michael M. For the first post of a kind, that I wish to see much more in the future.

And for further laps I will install a fix time plan: Upsetting a new lap always Friday evening, your deadline for posts is Thusday evening (24:00). And then: posted first - scored! And please don't edit your posts for avoiding any misunderstandings. Oh, how I hate to upset rules. :confused:

E.T.

Ufff
Do you have a presentiment, why I'm no more sure, whether it was a good idea to install a scoring system ?



[This message has been edited by AUSTRIA (edited 24 March 2000).]

[Michael M]

My editing was the note for Hans, but I agree, nobody can see what is edited.
I can understand Testa Rossa for his „bloody hell“ comment, you have the questions and you start to search, in your library (yes, I have a large one, because there was also an era before internet!), and of course in the net. This takes some time, you write your answers, and after refreshing the page you realize than somebody else was faster! Grrr!!!
Concerning the 1950 GP (F1) at Interlagos I post you the details by e-mail, do not want to disclose my last secret sources ....
Stay with the scoring system, as long as everybody takes it as fun only.

[AUSTRIA]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael M:
I can understand Testa Rossa for his „bloody hell“ comment, you have the questions and you start to search, in your library and of course in the net. This takes some time, you write your answers, and after refreshing the page you realize than somebody else was faster! Grrr!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly this is the problem. And I fear, that adventures of this kind are able to keep someone to do good research. So please take the scoring not too serious; I will show a lot of arbitrariness spreading my points in the following laps!

Thanks Michael for your @mail; indeed an interesting hint to this non-WC-GP, unfortunately without any further information. So some more research has to be done. I have a really exceeding list of non-WC- and pre-WC- and non-F1-races, but again and again I find one more.

E.T.

[Testa Rossa]

Hello guys

The race on May 28th 1950 is maybe not the first post-war Grand Prix at Interlagos. I have found a race there in 1947, won by Raph with a Maserati. Sorry that’s all I know about this one...

About the scoring system, I really do not care. This game is for me all about having fun and learning more.


Testa Rossa

[Michael M]

"Raph" was the pseudonym for Marquis George Raphaël Béthenod de las Casas of France. He participated in GP racing as gentleman driver from 1935 on, first on an Alfa Romeo Tipo B 2.9L, from 1936 on a Maserati 6CM. Mid 1938 he joined the Ecurie Bleue of Rene Dreyfuss, droving a 4.5 ltr Delahaye 145, and in 1939 he was team member of the Ecurie Lucy O'Reilly Schell - again with Dreyfuss as team mate (first on Delayhaye, later on Maserati 8CTF.
I know that already 1946 he started racing again, e.g. he won the GP at Nantes on july 28. However, I cannot find any details about the 1947 Interlagos race, Testa Rossa is kindly requested to submit more details - not because I do not trust him, but simply pure interest.

[Testa Rossa]

To Michael M.

When I said “that’s all I know for this one”, I was of course talking about the race, not about Raph who is well-known to me. The race at Interlagos is quoted in “Un Siècle de Grands Pilotes Français 1895-1995”, by Maurice Louche, Volume 3, page 23.

Testa Rossa

[Michael M]

Testa Rossa, sorry for misinterpreting you. As a Frenchman of course you know your compatriot drivers. Unfortunately I do now know this series of books, due to my limited French (restricted mainly to food & wine) French books are very rare in my library.

Typing error: please read "I do not know ..."


[This message has been edited by Michael M (edited 26 March 2000).]

[AUSTRIA]

French food and wine: good cue! Be sure, I will come back on this! Maybe the topic of one of my next trivia-laps?

A maching cue: 24 Heures du Mans

E.T.