[LM24] Le Mans 2021 21/22 August - Who Is Going?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

In other words, the EU screwed up. People keep using best efforts as the standard by which AZ are being held. In fact the contracts use reasonable best efforts, a significantly lesser standard in contract law.

In other words, making an extreme simplification:

von der leyen: I don't care how and how much, we need X mln of vaccines in january, X mln of vaccines in february, we need..

pfizer, AZ, moderna: YES

von der leyen: shut up and take my money

[Peter Mallett]

If that is what you are told then fine.

We are getting a completely different story along the lines of EU wanted to gouge the price down. They took too long negotiating and then got a poor deal. Now, because they agreed poor contracts they are throwing the toys out of the pram. Anyway there is no problem the EU can use the millions of AZ jabs they are storing. Oh wait!

[whitemr2]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And now we're the greedy ones, for getting our act together..... No wonder they're making false claims about the AZ. There may not have been much yet to shout about regarding Brexit, but on the vaccines front, we've done well..

No, not greedy, GB simply was more clever buying, like Israël did. AZ is safe, EU will hopefully catch up quick.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If that is what you are told then fine.

We are getting a completely different story along the lines of EU wanted to gouge the price down. They took too long negotiating and then got a poor deal. Now, because they agreed poor contracts they are throwing the toys out of the pram. Anyway there is no problem the EU can use the millions of AZ jabs they are storing. Oh wait!

For what can I say about what happens and is told in my country, nobody is accusing GB or telling GB is greedy it's just nobody cares about... also because, like is happening in my country, I'm sure each EU state has internal conflicts about who to blame who for the actual low vaccination rate.
"If that is what you are told then fine"
It's not what have I been told lol, EU has reserved an amount of vaccines that basically none could produce at that planned rate, it's a fact. How this happened is another story... and even here there is a little plot twist since at example germany at first agreed to the EU agreement I explained before and then reserved other 30 mln of pfizer vaccines supplies on its own, advantaged by the fact that biontech produces stocks of that vaccine in germany.

[Kpy]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If that is what you are told then fine.

We are getting a completely different story along the lines of EU wanted to gouge the price down. They took too long negotiating and then got a poor deal. Now, because they agreed poor contracts they are throwing the toys out of the pram. Anyway there is no problem the EU can use the millions of AZ jabs they are storing. Oh wait!

France resumes AZ jabs tomorrow., whilst India is now suspending exports of vaccines to UK.
I'm not sure that that makes the prospect of spectators at LM in August any more or less likely.

[Aysedasi]

At the rate infections are going up Christopher, with 5 months to go, I don't think the vaccination programme is going to ramp up anywhere near quick enough in time....and b******* conspiracy theories about AZ were never going to help.....

[GT6]

By tomorrow evening over 50% of uk adult populations will have had the Jab, and perhaps the French Government will start to take this seriously and get their people vaccinated rather than try to score points the old enemy.

[Kpy]

Originally Posted by GT6

By tomorrow evening over 50% of uk adult populations will have had the Jab, and perhaps the French Government will start to take this seriously and get their people vaccinated rather than try to score points the old enemy.

That's a very impressive figure. The current situation in France is confused and lacks an overall strategy. The rollout here has been far too slow and the new lock down rules are as yet unclear. Hopefully the traditional French scepticism towards vaccination will be reduced as the statistics on deaths in old people's homes show a drastic reduction in deaths from the virus.
However this is a Europe-wide problem and not an exclusively French one.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

At the rate infections are going up Christopher, with 5 months to go, I don't think the vaccination programme is going to ramp up anywhere near quick enough in time....and b******* conspiracy theories about AZ were never going to help.....

This is usually a quite respectful forum where the only politics discussed is the politics in Motorsport.

These are however unusual times, so what use to be is not always the case.
A large part of the members in this area of the forum is either UK or EU based, and currently UK and EU have a canyon between them, which only seems to grow with Brexit and COVID-19.
Unfortunately this canyon is clearly seen in the media (and only made worse) where political and national interest are valued higher than proper journalism.

I therefore strongly urge all to read everything with a grain of salt. UK and EU media will these days NEVER publish anything which does not contain a strong protectionists/national view. The truth therefore lies somewhere in between.

Regarding the AstraZeneca vaccine, this is not a conspiracy theory. Denmark was the first country to report issues with the vaccine and it is genuine. Denmark alone have 37 incidents of blood clots, of which four has died. We are a small population of ~5-6million people, where ~10% have had the first stab, being a mix of the available vaccines.
For Denmark the amount of incidents is therefore rather high, why it was paused, until further research have been done into the matter.

EU have found that the incidents are not high enough compared to the benefits of the vaccinations, why EU on a regional plan would not rule out the AZ vaccine. (Simple calculation of how many would die of COVID-19 compared to how many would die of a blood clot).

To sum it up, let us all respect that we are living in areas with strong national/political agendas which is heavily influencing the media we consume. The truth is somewhere in between and let use this forum not to create more division that there already is, but instead use it to share reflected views and maybe find more truth here, than what can be found in our medias.

Andrew, sorry for making this post based on your comment, it is in no way ment personally or as a specific reply to your comment.

[Aysedasi]

I take your point Mattias, but it seems very strange to have that high incidence in Denmark while the incidence elsewhere with AZ use is something like 1 in a million. I notice you refer to a mix of vaccines, so what does the data say about AZ? Did all 37 have AZ? My post was certainly not intended to be divisive and I remain strongly of the view that there is an anti-UK stance being shown by the EU that smacks of sour grapes. But I'll say no more on the matter and just hope that good progress can be made now that the regulators have confirmed their views.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I take your point Mattias, but it seems very strange to have that high incidence in Denmark while the incidence elsewhere with AZ use is something like 1 in a million. I notice you refer to a mix of vaccines, so what does the data say about AZ? Did all 37 have AZ? My post was certainly not intended to be divisive and I remain strongly of the view that there is an anti-UK stance being shown by the EU that smacks of sour grapes. But I'll say no more on the matter and just hope that good progress can be made now that the regulators have confirmed their views.

All 37 cases was AZ vaccines, where the others have no reported major incidents.

But you are totally right about the "anti-UK" stance in EU media. It Denmark it is not that harsh, but a lot of focus is being put on UK moving more protectionistic in the police conducted.
However I am certain that the UK media is pushing a lot of "anti-EU" articles to promote that Brexit was a good choice, now that it is gone through.

My biggest grief is that there are medias actively pushing dividing stances, to the point where I would claim it looks to be political/economical war mongering.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by CTD

All 37 cases was AZ vaccines, where the others have no reported major incidents.

My biggest grief is that there are medias actively pushing dividing stances, to the point where I would claim it looks to be political/economical war mongering.

All 37 of reported cases are AZ, however that represents 0.0000021765. Bit of a storm in a tea cup IMO. There are similar stories about the Pfizer jab but they are currently just rumour.

Your second point is well made. The EU threatening to implement a war footing, Macron decrying the AZ jab. Germany and others stockpiling the AZ jab but won't use it. It's no wonder we, on this side of the channel, look on in bewilderment. Le Mans is a massive tourist attraction and without vaccines, that and many other similar events and attractions will suffer another year of pain.

[zipper]

SWMBO said blood clot chances are higher using the contraceptive pill, so not to worry.


I'm a bloke. If I used the contraceptive pill I'd be worried!


They were right pushing the date back, just hope they'll be open. Saw Spa is closed. Gutted!

[GT6]

Well if come August the ACO demands that all attending have had the Vaccine and negative tests then us Brits will be in a better place, but i do not want to sit around in a campsite with a small social bubble of Brits, One of the joys of Le mans is sitting in a campsite with all my old friends and a large percentage of them are not from the UK and i want to meet up as it will be over 2 years since i have seen many of them. I think like all le mans fans we have a slight nationalistic pride but this year despite having a long love of the old Rebellion and owning a classic toyota i will be cheering loudly for an american car.

[Peter Mallett]

You are correct. The lack of jabbing in the EU will impact the UK tourism sector as well. I hope it won't hit Le Mans this year but I'm not optimistic sadly.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

Well if come August the ACO demands that all attending have had the Vaccine and negative tests then us Brits will be in a better place, but i do not want to sit around in a campsite with a small social bubble of Brits, One of the joys of Le mans is sitting in a campsite with all my old friends and a large percentage of them are not from the UK and i want to meet up as it will be over 2 years since i have seen many of them. I think like all le mans fans we have a slight nationalistic pride but this year despite having a long love of the old Rebellion and owning a classic toyota i will be cheering loudly for an american car.

I'm with you of course but the chances of meeting up as you suggest seem pretty slim right now. Just getting there will be quite an achievement....

[GT6]

Yes i know what you mean Andrew, but i am still hopeful that at least limited meet up will be allowed, our social bubble in the campsite might be smaller this year but be close to other small bubbles from other european countries, So during quite periods we will be able to shout to each other

[vincegail]

Just got my holiday leave granted.
I now have 11 days off 31 july - 10 august for a week of Caterham fun around Scotland, and 14 days off 16 august - 29 august for an undisclosed amount of time of fun in Le Mans.

Or a lot of time in Balconia.

[GT6]

Well hope you are able to make it, if you are driving around near silverstone for the classic we are hoping to be taking part in the stag anniversary display on the 31st/1st.

[vincegail]

I might make the 1st of august, definitely not 31st.

[Mal]

My company did a building project a couple of years ago involving a high profile client that the media were interested in... it gave me 100% proof that the media talk a load of cr#p. Some of the things they print as truth are 100% the opposite of the truth.

I know longer bother with mainstream news ...

It is interesting sometimes on TV to switch to and scroll through the foreign news channels .. it is astounding how different channels portray the same story in completely different ways

[Gingers4Justice]

20,000 British fans and no one else, empty grandstands... all we need now is a hog roast baguette for sale at £15 and an F3 support race which starts at 5.30am and hey presto, it’s the Silverstone WEC meeting!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

20,000 British fans and no one else, empty grandstands... all we need now is a hog roast baguette for sale at £15 and an F3 support race which starts at 5.30am and hey presto, it’s the Silverstone WEC meeting!

Yep, that'd do!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yep, that'd do!

Gets my vote.

[Aysedasi]

Right then, I'll get on the blower to M. Fillon right now to tell him we've solved his problem.....