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Old 13 Jun 2014, 22:24 (Ref:3420122)   #901
dbagtbag
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Originally Posted by Articus View Post
That's last year's wing. The swan neck attachment for this year's car is anything but conventional by comparison. Mike's confidential source suggesting it, Mike explaining how to do it, and the clever carbon fibre laminate. Everything suggest their doing it.

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Well all of the above was IMHO. We can agree to disagree, not that I have any part to play in the decision making process regarding the legality of Toyota's wing.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 22:27 (Ref:3420123)   #902
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Compare last year's central rear wing support:

...with this year's:


The difference is pretty obvious. The central portion of the rear wing is allowed to rotate at speed thanks to the single mounting point as highlighted by Mike:


A blatant violation of the rules. Period.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 22:28 (Ref:3420124)   #903
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I would hate to think there was no secret weapon

Anyways it will all become clear. As it always does!
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 22:32 (Ref:3420125)   #904
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Thats 2012's car.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 22:32 (Ref:3420126)   #905
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Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel View Post
Compare last year's central rear wing support:

...with this year's:


The difference is pretty obvious. The central portion of the rear wing is allowed to rotate at speed thanks to the single mounting point as highlighted by Mike:


A blatant violation of the rules. Period.
You're right last year's does have adjustment points on the center pillar.

I don't know quite what to make of it now haha
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:00 (Ref:3420131)   #906
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Originally Posted by dbagtbag View Post

Also, as Mike pointed out, the deflection in question is not at the end plates. He mentioned that the wing could have a stiff section near the center span and soft sections near the end plates that would twist. That twist, if Mike is correct, will be significant enough to easily see. IMHO I think it is unlikely, since carbon fiber is pretty stiff stuff and the airfoil of the rear wing has a significantly higher second moment of inertia than say the flimsy body cover of the Porsche which means its much harder to bend.
Carbon isn't as stiff as you assume. If you build it right, depending on weave, and orientation, it can be pretty darn flexible.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:04 (Ref:3420133)   #907
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If the wing moved, the teams would see it. Of all the test day, the practice and qualifying sessions no team has been alert enough to see if the wing moves? Im doubtful. Audi and Porsche have been behind Toyota on the straights for long enough to make this observation, but no word of it?

How would it move at speed without the 2nd element moving with it? There, the mountings are the same as the previous Toyota lmp's. This means only the central point of the main plane would move if the stiffness is retained at the attachment on the endplates? I cant see how with the attachments to the 2nd element being rigid the wing would move.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:09 (Ref:3420134)   #908
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Your right the flap does move with it. It would move due to flexibility near the center.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:14 (Ref:3420135)   #909
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Ok i've been looking carefully at the schematics and the photo's for a second time.Can anybody with an engineering degree or maybe even Mike himself clarify how the mainplane is able to rotate at speed while it is connected to the gurney flap(or whatever you call it)with metal connectors.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:19 (Ref:3420137)   #910
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If Toyota have been clever enough to design this, I'm certain they'd have a way of stopping the rotation if it was deemed illegal.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:23 (Ref:3420138)   #911
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If the wing moved, the teams would see it. Of all the test day, the practice and qualifying sessions no team has been alert enough to see if the wing moves? Im doubtful. Audi and Porsche have been behind Toyota on the straights for long enough to make this observation, but no word of it?

How would it move at speed without the 2nd element moving with it? There, the mountings are the same as the previous Toyota lmp's. This means only the central point of the main plane would move if the stiffness is retained at the attachment on the endplates? I cant see how with the attachments to the 2nd element being rigid the wing would move.
Thanks to the single mounting (pivoting) point where the main plane of the rear wing connects to the swan neck support, the central portion of the rear wing will necessarily be allowed to rotate downwards at speed under the action of air pressure, thereby allowing the whole rear wing to bend.

I honestly cannot see how this can be allowed to race. The ACO-FIA should react on their own motion, especially after their recent clarifications about "movable bodywork parts/elements".
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:38 (Ref:3420142)   #912
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Carbon isn't as stiff as you assume. If you build it right, depending on weave, and orientation, it can be pretty darn flexible.
Yeah you're definitely right, the strength of carbon fiber is dependent on the direction of the fibers. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Your right the flap does move with it. It would move due to flexibility near the center.
Yeah the entire thing would need to flex near the middle. I'd really like for someone to pull out a good camera and snap a picture of it down the mulsanne.

I really do have a hard time believing though, that this has gone unnoticed since Silverstone. And I'm pretty sure the rear wing center pillar hasn't changed since the Prologue.
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:42 (Ref:3420144)   #913
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:45 (Ref:3420145)   #914
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 23:54 (Ref:3420148)   #915
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