Delta's Twentea-Twentea Break

[Gerard C]

John, I guess bauble is always traveling with a spare and fully charged battery…

[Mike Bell]

Going back to UK ’Smart’ Motorways, I see that all work on current projects has stopped, pending a review......

That includes the £92m M20 ‘upgrade’ and the M23 between M25 and Gatwick. The latter work has been causing traffic chaos for yonks, so I wonder if all the restrictions will be removed to allow free-flow again?

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Going back to UK ’Smart’ Motorways, I see that all work on current projects has stopped, pending a review......

That includes the £92m M20 ‘upgrade’ and the M23 between M25 and Gatwick. The latter work has been causing traffic chaos for yonks, so I wonder if all the restrictions will be removed to allow free-flow again?

Oh but the lawyers will have a field day.

[bella]

sorry to barge in on the discussion chaps but smart motorways are my pet hate too

Originally Posted by morninggents

I always thought they were just an excuse to use the vast increase in cameras to catch speeding motorists. I've not been on any 'improved' motorway for several years that has actually been improved.

context - i work with a very well informed, well connected ex-copper.

there's a whole load of misunderstanding behind the speed limits. yes, they can slow traffic down prior to encountering a jam, but their main purpose during busy times is to safely accomodate more vehicles on the road. you need a much smaller gap between vehicles doing 50 and 40mph than you do between vehicles either doing or expecting to do 70mph. that's why you often see the limits in place when there's no real reason - it increases the amount of traffic that can use the road safely and in a controlled manner when sensors say it's getting busy.

of course, it all relies on both motorist understanding and compliance so none of it really works as intended. plus i think a lot of motorists aren't really keen on being controlled and monitored, driving has been hard-wired into us all as a statement of freedom.

my own main beef is that most cars have inaccurate speedos and are driven by motorists unable to maintain a steady speed, so when you're pottering along in a truck on cruise control at 50, there's always a muppet in the middle lane doing 45 thinking they're being righteous because *their* speedo says 50, and those nasty 44 tonne juggernauts the daily mail warned them about must all be speeding...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bella

sorry to barge in on the discussion chaps but smart motorways are my pet hate too

context - i work with a very well informed, well connected ex-copper.

there's a whole load of misunderstanding behind the speed limits. yes, they can slow traffic down prior to encountering a jam, but their main purpose during busy times is to safely accomodate more vehicles on the road. you need a much smaller gap between vehicles doing 50 and 40mph than you do between vehicles either doing or expecting to do 70mph. that's why you often see the limits in place when there's no real reason - it increases the amount of traffic that can use the road safely and in a controlled manner when sensors say it's getting busy.

of course, it all relies on both motorist understanding and compliance so none of it really works as intended. plus i think a lot of motorists aren't really keen on being controlled and monitored, driving has been hard-wired into us all as a statement of freedom.

my own main beef is that most cars have inaccurate speedos and are driven by motorists unable to maintain a steady speed, so when you're pottering along in a truck on cruise control at 50, there's always a muppet in the middle lane doing 45 thinking they're being righteous because *their* speedo says 50, and those nasty 44 tonne juggernauts the daily mail warned them about must all be speeding...

Another reason/excuse that has been trotted out to support the cause for Motorway speed restrictions is air quality control. In areas where there is poor air quality (partly caused by exhaust emissions) they have introduced speed restrictions at certain times of the day to help improves this. The theory being that a vehicle will emit cleaner exhaust emissions at 50 MPH than it will at 70 MPH. What they have failed to factor into this equation is that the afore-mentioned vehicles will now be in that area emitting their emissions for almost 30% longer which will most probably outweigh the improvement if not make things worse! (I think sometimes these schemes really are just revenue generators from the speeding fines that occur).

[bella]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Another reason/excuse that has been trotted out to support the cause for Motorway speed restrictions is air quality control. In areas where there is poor air quality (partly caused by exhaust emissions) they have introduced speed restrictions at certain times of the day to help improves this. The theory being that a vehicle will emit cleaner exhaust emissions at 50 MPH than it will at 70 MPH. What they have failed to factor into this equation is that the afore-mentioned vehicles will now be in that area emitting their emissions for almost 30% longer which will most probably outweigh the improvement if not make things worse! (I think sometimes these schemes really are just revenue generators from the speeding fines that occur).

agree with that - there's also the increase in emissions when people put their foot down when they leave said speed limited area. it's a nice idea, but like any attempt at behaviour change using legislation, it has to be accompanied by a lot of public education and that's just never done. similarly EURO6 trucks that run on unicorn pee and emit fumes that are less toxic than baby bunny farts right up until the filters need to regenerate themselves...

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Going back to UK ’Smart’ Motorways, I see that all work on current projects has stopped, pending a review......

That includes the £92m M20 ‘upgrade’ and the M23 between M25 and Gatwick. The latter work has been causing traffic chaos for yonks, so I wonder if all the restrictions will be removed to allow free-flow again?

My guess would be that the works will remain on the basis that in many cases they would have to complete, in some way, work in progress in order for the road to re-open.

If one was being especially distrustful one might wonder if the "review" was being called without anyone caring whether existing works would re-open or not for some extended time. I assume they need to be funded during their suspension and doubtless have Average Speed cameras deployed that can be used for the purpose!

What does surprise me is that the original justification for the controls included comments about people being killed while working on the hard shoulders - often due, we were told, to errant HGVs wandering off the inner lane.

I have yet to hear anyone attempt to look at pre- and post- ensmartening numbers and compare "hard shoulder" casualty rates.

That seem like an odd omission from the discussion.

[grantp]

On the subject of roads ...

The new Donington relief road is now 13 months into a 14 week project.

The road in general seems to be complete.

Lighting is installed and running every night.

The new shrubbery, that will eventually make visibility poor on the roundabouts, has been planted.

The road markings are painted, including the "Red Route" double lines.

I even observed a chap with a power washer working in it last week. Not sure what he might have been washing off the surface. I wondered if a member of the Royal Family was due imminently to perform an official opening.

One might take some bets on whether it will be open before Boris's ICE engine ban comes into effect on 2035.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by grantp

I have yet to hear anyone attempt to look at pre- and post- ensmartening numbers and compare "hard shoulder" casualty rates.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/...-years-1377934

'Motorways in general are the safest type of road in the UK. In 2018, they carried 21 per cent of all traffic but accounted for just six per cent of fatalities and five per cent of all casualties.'

'Overall, between 2014 and 2018 there were 503 deaths on UK motorways [...] 38 of these were on smart motorways, amounting to seven per cent of fatalities while smart motorways now account for around 17 per cent of the motorway network.'

[grantp]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/...-years-1377934

'Motorways in general are the safest type of road in the UK. In 2018, they carried 21 per cent of all traffic but accounted for just six per cent of fatalities and five per cent of all casualties.'

'Overall, between 2014 and 2018 there were 503 deaths on UK motorways [...] 38 of these were on smart motorways, amounting to seven per cent of fatalities while smart motorways now account for around 17 per cent of the motorway network.'

The numbers offered are from 2014 to 2018 whereas the quote suggests that NOW the Smart stuff covers 17% of the network. Much of that 17% will have come into use from fairly late in 2018

So what does the reported information tell us - or is the piece just a little unclear in that sentence?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by grantp

The numbers offered are from 2014 to 2018 whereas the quote suggests that NOW the Smart stuff covers 17% of the network. Much of that 17% will have come into use from fairly late in 2018

So what does the reported information tell us - or is the piece just a little unclear in that sentence?

I'm not sure - and it definitely warrants closer scrutiny of the figures.

I think it shows that looking at the number of incidents on Smart Motorways in isolation is meaningless, without a control figure to base it against.

More articles exist, but it does take a bit of deciphering:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/d...art-motorways/ - 'Highways England has published statistics from data gathered since the first smart motorway opened in 2006 to say:
Journey reliability has improved by 22%
Personal injury accidents have been reduced by more than half'

[grantp]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm not sure - and it definitely warrants closer scrutiny of the figures.

I think it shows that looking at the number of incidents on Smart Motorways in isolation is meaningless, without a control figure to base it against.

More articles exist, but it does take a bit of deciphering:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/d...art-motorways/ - 'Highways England has published statistics from data gathered since the first smart motorway opened in 2006 to say:
Journey reliability has improved by 22%
Personal injury accidents have been reduced by more than half'

I wonder what they mean by "Journey reliability"?

We seem to have very regular reports of incident and accidents on the section around M1 J24 which was completed about a year ago.

Current policy of closing everything down and extended investigations means long waits seem to be inevitable for anything more than a small bump.

The trouble with any stats is that usage and traffic density numbers will change over a period like 2006 to 2019 and all sorts of other influences could have a significant effect on overall numbers but both negative and positive effects could be localised.

My guess is that the 2006 reference is to the original M42 section between Brum and Coventry and that is probably the one stretch that looked viable for the concept and ultimately seem to work well enough.

It's a section I used regularly for some years up to the point where the work for the enSmartening had started and I always tried to pick my travel time carefully to avoid the well known problem periods.

I use it rarely these days but when I do, so long as the NEC events are not an influence and there have been no accidents in the vicinity it seems to work well enough. Somewhat unnecessary speed limits set from time to time but generally seems OK.

For the rest ... flows marginally improved if they are moving but I really don't like them.

A friend of mine had a sudden fuel pump failure some years ago whilst on the M1 in South Yorkshire running at the speed limit in the RH lane.

Fortunately those around him realised he had a problem and made space. He had enough momentum to get across the lanes and was lucky enough to just reach an exit slip road via the hard shoulder.

I had a similar situation about 3 years ago albeit not on a motorway but a dual carriageway in a busy period.

It's not pleasant. What one might do on a Smart section running as 4 lanes I don't know. I suspect that, across 3 lanes, the awareness of other traffic to one predicament has a better chance of getting a reaction than would be likely across 4 lanes but whether there is any research that would back up such an opinion I have no idea.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by bella

EURO6 trucks that run on unicorn pee and emit fumes that are less toxic than baby bunny farts right up until the filters need to regenerate themselves...

and when they do regenerate, mine seems to be daily, they pump all that **** out in one go anyway so it defeats the object of making them clean in the first place

[grantp]

Micro cars ...

As mentioned on the other thread, a set of them.

FMR (Messerschmitt), Heinkel, the JZR and a Nobel 200.

See link for something similar for the latter.

https://www.classicscooterist.com/winstons-nobel-200/

Just thought some might be interested.

Also the Heinkel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_Kabine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_(automobile)

Just imagine how things might have been if the Mini had not been created ...

[Mike Bell]

MotorSport News next week will have a feature titled ‘How Historic Racing is tackling the environment’.

Should be interesting!

[Cliff Ryan]

Just catching up having emerged from Tax Return season, that photo of the Bentley at Bathurst with the kangaroo is fantastic.

I happened to catch the end of the historic support race on TV from a late restart where Terry Lawlor ran away from the field in a beautiful red and gold Shelby GT350, did anyone else see it?

Bathurst is definitely on my to do list

[midgetman]

It's a touch blowy here today at Clay Pigeon. Meeting abandoned. Thankfully this ain't my awning.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[GCCheddaris]

Any news on the Clay Pigeon becoming a Holiday Camp ?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

It's a touch blowy here today at Clay Pigeon. Meeting abandoned. Thankfully this ain't my awning.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Seems a bit daft even thinking of putting an awning out in this weather

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

Any news on the Clay Pigeon becoming a Holiday Camp ?

Current thinking is it's being used as a stalking horse. "OK we'll drop the Clay planning permission if you let us have the other one" (which is the one we want anyway).

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Mike Bell]

Tragic news for the Morgan community. Bill Fink, US importer and total enthusiast for the marque, has died in a house fire. A huge loss, and sincere condolences to his family and friends.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...y-15045765.php

Among significant Morgans Bill owned at some point was the red SLR, which I’ve had the privilege to race many times with it’s current owner. Avatar changed in tribute, and found a lovely period 5 minute film of him racing the car....

https://www.morgancars-usa.com/video

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Tragic news for the Morgan community. Bill Fink, US importer and total enthusiast for the marque, has died in a house fire. A huge loss, and sincere condolences to his family and friends.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...y-15045765.php

Among significant Morgans Bill owned at some point was the red SLR, which I’ve had the privilege to race many times with it’s current owner. Avatar changed in tribute, and found a lovely period 5 minute film of him racing the car....

https://www.morgancars-usa.com/video

Mike, I have copied this to BHP.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Then requiring all homes to go all electric is another one which will cost the populace loads of dosh. FWIW I don't see this as party political since whoever won the latest election would be backed into the ER/Saint Greta myth.

As our house in the UK has never had oil or gas central heating I decided a couple of years ago to go with a fully electric 6kw thermal storage system. However although it works very well and requires no maintenance it is expensive to run, It's a good job we have our nice polluting wood burner to back it up!

[S griffin]

I understand that oil and gas isn’t for everyone and it’s good to embrace electric. It certainly is the future, although as you say there will always be a reason to have a log burner

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I understand that oil and gas isn’t for everyone and it’s good to embrace electric. It certainly is the future, although as you say there will always be a reason to have a log burner

Which is?