Paul Morris is selling his BMWs - Page 2

kmchow · 7 Aug 2001, 16:54 (Ref:127196)

Even as a die hard ST fan, I gotta say Morris must be out of his mind if he hopes to get 500K (US or Aus?) out of his old BMW? Maybe if he threw BOTH CARS in, with TONNES of spares, it could be considered an overpriced proposition. The car can't be worth more than 100-125K??

There is no more market for old ST cars, except for club racing purposes? And even then, I'm not seeing that many being raced yet? Is 20-50K US still too expensive for the club racing market?

Crash Test · 8 Aug 2001, 03:54 (Ref:127411)

Put it this way, if they went to the expense of fitting a h-pattern gear box, it would then be eligible for Sports Sedans. $US20 would probably be affordable, 50 would be pushing it... and don't forget that the running costs of a Super Tourer is probably the biggest expense.

kmchow · 8 Aug 2001, 17:07 (Ref:127679)

Since we're on the topic of used (ST) car prices, here are some recent ads!!

Crashtest wrote:

>$US20 would probably be affordable,
>
I believe the Hyundai Lantras sold for around $25K US 2 years ago?
'93 Vauxhall Cavalier is selling for $24K US!
'93 Vauxhall Cavalier is selling for $24K US!
A '96 Accord is selling for just $30K US!!
A '96 Mondeo could be had for $33K US.
'93/'95 spec BMW is selling for $45K US.

>50 would be pushing it... and don't forget that the running costs of >a Super Tourer is probably the biggest expense.
>
There's a lot of cars going for that range.
'96 Primera from the ASTC - Nigel Barclays - $40K US.
'96 Primera from STCC - $40K
'93/'95 Primera from BTCC - $38K US

These cars were found at the www.formulasaloons.com website. So the prices are coming down. It would be so cool if some of these cars made their way to the US!!

So which car is the best deal do you think?? Bang for buck, the Cavaliers are the cheapest way to get into a ST car!! They supposedly come with the most spares as well!!

Crash Test · 9 Aug 2001, 00:29 (Ref:127882)

You'd be a dang fool to pay $25klickers for a Hyundai.... sure they are Super Tourers, but they aren't really 'Super' or 'Tourers' for that matter...

The problem is, what do you get with those cars? Are they just rollers, so they have all of the electrical stuff still in place, engine managment etc? Often they would canibalise cars to make new ones.... and what are the cars history? A 93 Vauxhaul is a bit before the big tech push that ended ST. That Barclay Primera has had many a driver over the years....coulod there be something wrong with it since nobody has held onto it for any great period of time?

kmchow · 9 Aug 2001, 17:00 (Ref:128113)

Crash Test wrote:

>You'd be a dang fool to pay $25klickers for a Hyundai.... sure they >are Super Tourers, but they aren't really 'Super' or 'Tourers' for >that matter...
>
But those cars are a good/cheap/fast way to get into ST. Both were bought by drivers and raced in last year's ASTC? They are terribly underpowered, but seem to be well sorted and reasonably reliable? More so than Malcolm Rea's Carina that every list member always pick on? ;-)

kmchow · 9 Aug 2001, 17:07 (Ref:128116)

Crash Test wrote:

>The problem is, what do you get with those cars? Are they just >rollers, so they have all of the electrical stuff still in place, >engine managment etc? Often they would canibalise cars to make new >ones.... and what are the cars history?
>
All the cars have a racing history. But like street/road used cars, they probably have their share of things that needed to be fixed. All are supposedly race ready and many come with spares. Of course, this is all meaningless to me since I don't have anywhere near the funds to purchase the cars nor do I live in Europe!!!

But heck, it's interesting to see all those cars for sale!! Imagine, you can own Steve Soper's '93 BMW for 45K US!

Crash Test · 10 Aug 2001, 00:35 (Ref:128313)

"But those cars are a good/cheap/fast way to get into ST."
- I don't know if I could agree with the 'fast' part there... With regards to the Carinas, reliabilty or speed were never their strong points. At least they always looked the part

D.R.T. · 11 Aug 2001, 05:44 (Ref:128769)

v8 supercars aren't very expensive, I wouldn;t believe they would spend anymore than $300,000 on a car. They don't have too, the only thing that resembles 19th century components on a V8 Supercar, is the Computer Data aqcusition. Yes we are talkin English here.

Crash Test · 11 Aug 2001, 06:33 (Ref:128783)

Huh, whats that got to do with anything? I can tell you for a fact big teams like HRT spend much more than $300,000 on a new car....when was the last time you had a look inside of one of a V8?

kmchow · 13 Aug 2001, 02:57 (Ref:129479)

Where did you guys hear the rumor that a 2nd Camry might be raced? AFAIK, the 2nd Camry was sold to the US to be raced by Rod Millen. The car appeared once or twice during the '96 NATCC season. Last I heard, they were asking something like $55-75K US for the car!

Crash Test · 13 Aug 2001, 10:31 (Ref:129567)

Miller has had two different Camrys over time, simply the fact that he might have two cars doesn't really mean that there are going to be two Camrys racing...

By the way, I'm amazed that the older Adderton/Bates one is still going around. I remember a report of it 'breaking up', all sorts of things like uprights were breaking, and they were going to take the car to the tip...

D.R.T. · 13 Aug 2001, 12:03 (Ref:129617)

Miller does have 2 Camry's and he raced them both last year, I don't know where you got that the Blue one was still in US. I don't really think that Jamie Miller would keep both cars if he just planned to race one. He even was planning to run 2 cars at Wakefield Last year , only that the engine management system held him back because the new car hadn't had one in it, so he used the one from the other car. Aaron McGill looked at buying the white Camry for the 2000-2001 season, but decided against it because it apparently was chewing up gearboxes, so he decided the Nissan was a better buy, what a move the Nissan was **** all year and Jamie didn't have a problem with it mechanically all year.

elephino · 13 Aug 2001, 12:48 (Ref:129644)

Jamie complained a huge amount over the white Camry being unsafe and then promptly continued to race it for a while. I believe a strut broke at Winton along with the broken wheel and suspension at Oran Park, but that was partly due to an accident.

The blue Camry was imported from the US, I do know that. But last I heard he still had both.

kmchow · 13 Aug 2001, 18:14 (Ref:129778)

D.R.T wrote:

>Miller does have 2 Camry's and he raced them both last year, I don't >know where you got that the Blue one was still in US.
>
My information is circa '97, possibly '98. I recall seeing the car for sale at the Rod Millen website. I did notice it disappeared some time ago. So did Miller purchase it or did Toyota take back the car and give it to Miller?

elephino wrote:
>Jamie complained a huge amount over the white Camry being unsafe and >then promptly continued to race it for a while.
>
I recall Jamie complaining and wanting Toyota to give him the newer ex-NATCC blue car to race in the Bathurst 1000 a few years back. Either that or he wanted help/support to rebuild the white Camry. Either way, I really love the Camry b/c of the nice kit you can buy for the road version!!! It was supposedly taken straight from the race version.

Michael H · 14 Aug 2001, 05:30 (Ref:130088)

we are all talking about the Camry's that have raced, aren't we?
I have always been puzled by a photo I saw in TOCAs series preview attached to Motorsport News for the 1997 season. It shows a photo of a current 2001 shape Camry all dressewd up for racing in the same colour schemem as what the Adderton/Bates car raced in in 1997.

Does anyone know anything about this car?

I hope Miller gets both Camry's on the grid for this season.

Crash Test · 14 Aug 2001, 11:08 (Ref:130219)

I think you'll find that was just a computer generated mock up..

kmchow · 15 Aug 2001, 16:56 (Ref:130833)

Michael H wrote:

>It shows a photo of a current 2001 shape Camry all dressewd up for >racing in the same colour schemem as what the Adderton/Bates car >raced in in 1997.
>Does anyone know anything about this car?
>
Actually, a pair of '98 (current shape) Supertouring Camry's ACTUALLY EXIST!!! They were built by Rod Millen Motorsports on behalf of Toyota for the '98 season. They were supposed to be raced for the '98 NATCC season. When the championship collapsed with the pullout of Dodge, Toyota also pulled the plug at the same time. I don't know what happened to those cars. I had always hoped Toyota might race them in another ST championship. It would have been a great sight to see a semi works Accord race against Works Toyota and Dodge teams! Sighhh...

A rumor surfaced a year or two ago that Toyota might convert them to drag racing duty, but nothing materialised from that rumor.

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