Montoya needs to be #1

power&glory · 2 Dec 2002, 13:53 (Ref:441123)

If Williams really want to mount a championship charge, they need to have a number one, and it must be Montoya. It is obvious (by looking at last year's results) who the better driver is of the Williams duo, and since Juan finished higher in the points last year and had many more poles than Ralf, Williams should pour all of their energy into Juan if they want to beat Ferrari. Montoya had a ligitimate shot at a win in Indy last year, and Ralf crashed into him

This needs to stop; they need to get Ralf out of the way.

**Adam43** · 2 Dec 2002, 14:07 (Ref:441128)

I hope that Williams continues to operate it's current no team hierarchy policy. Even if that means losing the title.

IMO they need both drivers driving to the best of their ability.

(oh and hopefully everyone will reply sensibly.)

Glen · 2 Dec 2002, 14:56 (Ref:441146)

Having the "number two" move aside for the "number one" is now illegal.

I have to say that, in my opinion, two team-mates taking each other off is worse than a team being organised and implementing orders. The former scenario is about as unprofessional as can be imagined, the latter is unpalatable, but professional nonetheless. Doesn't matter so much in 2003 anyway - because team orders are now much harder to implement.

Gt_R · 2 Dec 2002, 15:12 (Ref:441155)

If a team has 2 relatively evenly matched drivers like those in Williams & Renault, the team would be better off letting the drivers fight it out (in a controlled-aggression manner). However, if one driver is supposedly to be quite alot better than his team mate, and can contribute considerably more to the team's improvement in results if the team put more of their support behind him, from the viewpoint of management, they should place more emphasis on the better option. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE TEAM ORDERS. Teams that fall into the latter category in 2002 include Ferrari, Mclaren, Minardi.

In short, do what is better for the team.

neilap · 2 Dec 2002, 15:48 (Ref:441183)

If one of the teammates is in the title fight and the other is not the team should make sure the slower driver supports his teammate. I dont think the season should start with an unfair advantage but it JPM has seven DNF's in seven races and RS is ten points behing MS in the title chase it would be stupid to give them equal support. Maybe there will be no moving over but maybe a little more resources spent of the faster driver or even the "lowly" slow pit stop stragegy, in either case something would have to be done to help RS. Yes, my sencrio is highly unlikely but IMO this is a reason for team orders otherwise let them fight. Personally I would rather them take each other out in a good fight that one whimpering out of the way. As JPM said, he is here to race not move over.

Total-F1 · 2 Dec 2002, 15:55 (Ref:441193)

Even what Williams did at Silverstone in 2001 - asking Ralf to move over for a faster Montoya who was on a different fuel strategy is now theoretically illegal...

Glen · 2 Dec 2002, 16:09 (Ref:441201)

Quote:

Originally posted by Total-F1
Even what Williams did at Silverstone in 2001 - asking Ralf to move over for a faster Montoya who was on a different fuel strategy is now theoretically illegal...

I don't think that's accurate. Different strategies obviously require switches. If a team has a quicker driver let through and then that driver goes off at a much faster pace no-one is going to cry foul.

LucaBadoer · 2 Dec 2002, 16:33 (Ref:441210)

The 2003 entry list shows Montoya as car 3 and Ralf as 4.

...last year Ralf was 5 and JPM was car 6. um...

anything to be read into this??

Mr V · 2 Dec 2002, 16:40 (Ref:441218)

Quote:

Originally posted by LucaBadoer
The 2003 entry list shows Montoya as car 3 and Ralf as 4.

...last year Ralf was 5 and JPM was car 6. um...

anything to be read into this??

No, JPM finished up ahead of Rafe this year in the standings, thats why he gets no 3 and Rafe no 4.

As for the original post, i'm in agreement with guys like Adam, i think they should keep equality in the team, for me, if one driver wins over another due to team orders it detracts from that acheivement.

Sato san · 2 Dec 2002, 16:42 (Ref:441219)

spot on Mr V !.....let a driver win by being the better driver on the day rather than by any other means .

LucaBadoer · 2 Dec 2002, 16:49 (Ref:441228)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
No, JPM finished up ahead of Rafe this year in the standings, thats why he gets no 3 and Rafe no 4.

I thought the team could decide which driver had which number?

I thought JV use 10 in 2001 and panis 9 at BAR? - and JV finished higher than Panis in 2000... didnt he?

Mr V · 2 Dec 2002, 17:02 (Ref:441242)

Quote:

Originally posted by LucaBadoer
I thought the team could decide which driver had which number?

Ya right LB, the team does decide, but they usually put the higher placed driver first (although Senna always picked 8 as opposed to 7 if i remember right), as for JV, i think he picked no 10 as either thats his favourite number or he just hates no 9, something like that.

Damon · 2 Dec 2002, 19:19 (Ref:441315)

I hope above anything else that Williams sticks to it's guns and never enforces team orders. The only orders Mansell and Piquet ever had were "you may race each other but you must not take each other out". They provided some of the greatest fights in recent F1 history. Of course that would require two drivers of equal ability in the team and Ralf's no where near JPM so scrap that

.

pole2pole · 2 Dec 2002, 19:39 (Ref:441330)

Team orders may be illegal now but how are they going to be policed we all know that teams can change the positions of there drivers if they want to by a quick are a slow pit stop are by how much fuel one of there drivers starts the race with. I hope that williams carries on with there 50/50 may the best man win set up because at the end of the day we all want to see racing. With the new rules for the 03 season regarding the one lap qualifying for sure some of the top drivers will make mistakes and they will be starting down the grid for the race the last thing I want to see is a driver to reel in his team mate only to see his team mate jump out of the way and hold back the other drivers while the number one driver palys getaway. As regards montoya I dont think he will need any help this guy just keeps getting faster lets hope he has a good car for 03 because if he does then I think we are in for a treat

Damon · 2 Dec 2002, 19:41 (Ref:441332)

It's obvious next year that team orders will simply get driven 'under ground'. Expect a few 'slow' pit stops for Barrichello if he gets too far ahead of Schu next year.

Yoong Montoya · 2 Dec 2002, 20:09 (Ref:441350)

Quote:

Originally posted by Damon
It's obvious next year that team orders will simply get driven 'under ground'. Expect a few 'slow' pit stops for Barrichello if he gets too far ahead of Schu next year.

You mean at places like the A1-ring?

Damon · 2 Dec 2002, 21:04 (Ref:441375)

Absolutely!

Snrub · 2 Dec 2002, 23:25 (Ref:441451)

Team orders will be policed based on perception. If it is perceived that they are occuring then the offenders will be punished.

Team order suck in all circumstances. Racing is suppose to be an individual sport not a team business. If someone wins fair and square does the sponsor of the competitive looser really get less publicity? If your team loses because your drivers are taking points from each other then that's just too bad. If you were the better team, then your team wins. The best individual has won when they win the drivers award.

Jordi · 3 Dec 2002, 00:29 (Ref:441481)

Quote:

Originally posted by LucaBadoer
I thought the team could decide which driver had which number?

I thought JV use 10 in 2001 and panis 9 at BAR? - and JV finished higher than Panis in 2000... didnt he?

The 10 was used because there was a 1 in the number... 1 = lead, win , triumph...

f1manoz · 3 Dec 2002, 01:59 (Ref:441502)

Having no designed no. 1 and no. 2 is good. It makes both drivers strive harder for victory. Plus it stops the arguments!

3 Dec 2002, 02:05 (Ref:441505)

Quote:

Originally posted by Snrub
Team order suck in all circumstances. Racing is suppose to be an individual sport not a team business.

I disagree, racing is a team sport, the drivers are part of the team.

I think team orders have their place in certain circumstances.

RT · 3 Dec 2002, 03:20 (Ref:441526)

The only Nr. 1 at Williams is the BMW engine. Gerhard Berger and Mario Theissen won't stand for a strategy of favouring Juan over Ralf or......next time Sir Frank comes hat in hand like he did last season hoping for a longer relationship with the Bavarian company, he will be turned down more bluntly. Well....it's really BMW that will decide.

All I can say is let them race. Ralf had a lot of bad luck and didn't look bad at all compared to Juan.....

It should make for a most interesting season....

z2252314 · 3 Dec 2002, 03:30 (Ref:441529)

Quote:

Racing is suppose to be an individual sport not a team business.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. When a team invests $US400m on a championship bid, it very much becomes a team sport. You cant have it both ways, if you wanna watch the very best of drivers battle it out in the best cars in the world, then you have to expect certain degree of team play. You dont have this at Williams because there is no clear indication as to who is the better driver. Believe me, when one driver begins to dominate the other, preferential treatment will follow. BMW, MERC, FERRARI, TOYOTA, JAGUAR, HONDA etc arent investing billions in this sport to provide entertaining races, their here to win. If you dont like the concept of 'team', then your following the wrong sport.

Valve Bounce · 3 Dec 2002, 06:19 (Ref:441564)

I agree with Adam (second post from the top), and also with anyone else, like Mr v and sato San, who agrees with Adam. Conversely, I would have to disagree with anyone who does not agree with Adam. :confused:

**Adam43** · 3 Dec 2002, 08:24 (Ref:441613)

Valve, I agree with you.

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