What is the true value of all actual Formula-1 drivers???

[Jeanburrasca81]

I'm still a rookie, but I would like to present myself by launcing an already classic topic: what's the real speed of our active pilots?
Well, actually it's quite impossible to judge over people sitting in different cars, but I'll give a trie anyway.
Michael Schumacher: after all it semms to be quite undicutable that he's the quickest of all, a class of its own. For me he's not Senna, but equally one of the most complete drivers of all times. When he concentrates himself, he can be as quick as in Qualifying, through large parts of the race. Respect also for his fantastic rain performances.
Mika Hakkinen: you probably expect me to call him the second-fastest driver, but I have to say that I don't think him to be more than upper-middle-class. The only cause for his two titles was the McLaren, after me still the quickest car of all. He's mediocre under rain-conditions, where they say the true talent comes out. After all Hakka has been veaten by Coulthard in 2 months when McLaren bilt a more oversteering car. That says all.
David Coulthard: he's mediocre, there is no doubt. He was slower than Hill and he was slower than Hakkinen (almost in most of the races). Even if under special conditions, when McLaren doesn't prefer Hakka, he can win races, he only does it he drives the best bolid.
Rubens Barrichello: I'm sure he's one of the quickest. It's true he didn't show too much in the last season, but only because he suffers Schumacher's nearly unbeatable speed.
If we remember his exploits in the Stewart-GP and even with Jordan (e.g. 1994: Pole in Belgium; 1995: 2nd in Canada), we can see that he has all the arguments to beat Hakka and Coulthard.
Jean Alesi: I can't deny that I love this guy. Since 1989 (4th at the Paul-Ricard at the debut), he shows us what real car-control means. It's more than a pity he never has been world-champion, but he really is a champion in the hearts of millions of fans who followed him for the last decade. For me he's still the second-quickest after Schumacher.
Ralf Schumacher: he's not as fast as his brother, but still a really talented guy. Even if he suffered Button in afew occassions, his 5th place in the championship this year speeks for itself, and all that with a new BMW-engine.
Jenson Button: to be honest, I never was that impressed by a rookie since Villeneuve and Alesi. I have not more to say because I don't know enough about him, but after me Button has a great basic speed, on Alesi's and Villeneuve's level.
Jacques Villeneuve: one of the 6 fastest pilots, with Schumacher 1&2, Alesi, Button, Barrichello and Gene. He is the only pilot who risks his live to overtake someone in an uncalculatable way. Therefore he's atrue pilot, not for his mediocre basic speed (that made him suffer Hill).
Marc Gene: you're really surprised, aren't you? This valuation has a good reason. First of all, marc was quicker than people in better cars in nearly every race. His duel with Alesi in France 2000 impressed me. As second reason I name his basic speed,that made him sign good results in the last 2 seasons.
Jarno Trulli: a very talented guy who can grow and, one day, take his place under the top-pilots. At the moment his driving is too impulsive.
Pedro de la Rosa: the same discours as for Trulli.
Nick Heidfeld: he was champion in Formula-3000, but he never showed anything on the slow Prost. Let's watch him on a Sauber.
Giancarlo Fisichella: he has some sort of talent, but for various reasons, not at least for his unprofessional attitude, he never won a race till now.
Jos Verstappen: he has less talent than de la Rosa, but he is a middle-class-driver.
Mika Salo: same as Verstappen.
Pedro-Paolo Diniz: no reason to drive a Formula-1 bolid (don't count his money).
Alexander Wurz: he suffers the burn-out-syndrom, but if we remember Monte-Carlo 1998, he must be made of hard wood.
Gaston Mazzacane: no reason to stay in Formula-1. He's a world behind his teammate.
Ricardo Zonta: a good driver, but not made for Formula-1.
Eddie Irvine: much talent, makes not much use of it. Apart from his great 1999-season he scarcely showed what he could have shown.
Johnny Herbert: good for him to change the series, because he's burned out in Formula-1, but still has his talent for the less tecnical IRL-series.
Heinz-Harald Frentzen: much talent, but he shows it too scarcely.
Luciano Burti: let's wait 2001.
I hope you've read this far and I'm waiting for constructive critics. I'm really interested in your opinions.
In deepest respect, your Jeanburrasca81.

[dick]

schumacher isnt best
with fia`s help a team working for him and such resources it isnt hard to win
6 best
1.Häkkinen
2.Villeneuve
3.Coulthard
4.Barrichello
5.Schumacher.M
6.Frentzen
ferrari is a better car whén its raining.

[Tris]

Originally posted by dick

ferrari is a better car whén its raining.

Hi Dick!

I am surprised that no one else mentions this!


As for the fastest pilot... I believe on pure speed Montoya if amazingly fast now. probably the fastest driver in the world. His in car footage at Elkhart Lake was awesome... it looked like it was being fast forwarded compared to the other drivers!

[LYM]

Somebody please enlighten me when and where has FIA helped Ferrari and more specifically TGF during the last four races of the year?

And other seasons, what does FIA's pro-Ferrari attitude has to do with TGF's ability when he won 2 WDC with Benetton??

Please don't jump on the bandwagon and totally discredit the man unreasonably.

And Jeanburrasca81, I would have to disagree with you on Hakkinen if you are talking about real speed. I think he is the fastest out there. He surged forward and overtook TGF from the second grid several times this year. But he is not as flexible and adaptable as TGF to different weathers and circuits. And he is more cautious, or more ethical in his driving depending on you view on 'dangerous' driving.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by Tris
As for the fastest pilot... I believe on pure speed Montoya if amazingly fast now. probably the fastest driver in the world. His in car footage at Elkhart Lake was awesome... it looked like it was being fast forwarded compared to the other drivers!

How can you say that Montoya is the fastest F1 driver when he's never done a test, practice or qualifying session?

[Gt_R]

Here i go again, jumping into Michael's defence!~

Quote:
"schumacher isnt best
with fia`s help a team working for him and such resources it isnt hard to win
6 best
1.Häkkinen
2.Villeneuve
3.Coulthard
4.Barrichello
5.Schumacher.M
6.Frentzen"

"Best" driver? i presume you mean several factors like Speed, skills, Aggressiveness, Consistency, and Ability to Think, etc, in all weather conditions and in both qualifys and races, yah?

And Coulthard and Barrichello being better than Michael in these counts??? It's really unbelievable!!~ Not only do they not have the speed and skills of Michael, they cant think as well as him and are not consistent either~

How about Mika and Villeneuve?
I would like to point out that in the years that Mika and Villeneve won their championship, their cars were the best of the lot by some margin. Yet, they need to take it to the last round to win the championship because of... A Michael in a somewhat less competitive car (compared to Williams 97 and Mclaren 98)!~
And Michael won his first 2 championship in an inferior car, while his third championship is won in a car as good as mclaren (still not the best, but equally good).
Statistics have shown that too!
And boy, i wonder who got pole and won the last 4 races of the year!
In Japan, DC and Rubens were soooo far off!

of the 6 drivers you pick, dick, i would rate them upon 10 points
1st) Michael 8.5
2nd) Mika 8.0
3rd) Jacques 7.8
4th) David 7.0
5th) Rubens 6.8
6th) HHF 6.6

Com'on admit the facts that among the current crop of drivers, Michael is the best! Berger thinks so to, Eddie think so too, Bernie thinks so too, Jenson thinks so too, Prost thinks so too, even DC knows it himself!
i am sure these people knows who is best better than us!~


"with fia`s help a team working for him and such resources it isnt hard to win"
FIA help??? they did?? Boy, they must be doing a pretty bad job at helping them then!
if you mean helping them by giving Mclarens 2 OBVIOUS stop go penalties, having cars that are doubtfully legal this year, and scolding Ron for being a disgrace to F1, Mclaren deserved all that!

And by the way, Jacques also had a team working for him instead of for Zonta, had a huge financial resource, and a works engine too. Now, did he win the Championship???
Mika had the team working for him to in the last 2 to 3 races at least this year, and huge financial, techical resources plus a powerful Mercedes Works engine. Did he win any of that 3 races???
Its easy? One day, lets make a date and try it out, shall we??? Perhaps we could win the championship on our first day out!

[neutral]

Well said Gt_R.

[Tris]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl

How can you say that Montoya is the fastest F1 driver when he's never done a test, practice or qualifying session?

Read my words... when did I say F1 in the post? I thought Obie Juan was a test driver for....a top f1 team a few years back

[Jeanburrasca81]

To all of you,
I'm happy about our little discussion, but I have to replie on some points. It's maybe true that Hakka is a faster driver now, than he was, e.g., in 1996, when DC was the quicker of the both. OK, there was Adelaide 1995, but even in 1997 DC was absolutely on Hakka's level, championship and individual race-performance showed that. Hakka began to beat DC regularly, when McLaren began to prefer him and built a car adapted to his preferences (understeering...).
So that's my opinion on Hakka, and I'm sure he himself would be surprised of his performances whether he had to drive a less perfect bolid.
Of what concerns Montoya, I'm sure he is one of the quickest pilots on this planet, also for his global talents on any type of circuit, but who can say that he will show that in Formula-1. Many fast drivers are genious in special categories, but not in Formula-1, think of Zanardi.
So, in deepest respect, your Jeanburrasca81.

[Tris]

Mika has beaten DC in the standing every year except 1997 where it could be argued that Hakkinen lost four race wins due to un-reliability. Hakkinen is faster than DC and always has been. Remember Estoril 1993?

[Gt_R]

Mika is VeRY fast if the circumstances are perfectly perfect.
See Hungary 2000...100% perfect and he flew!
See Japan 2000...he flew when its dry, but stumbles when it gets damp.
See Monza 2000...with a brake problem, he slowed down far more than he should!
Mika is a driver who must race with full confidence knowing that everything is right!
And if things are right, he would be at Schumacher's level~

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by Tris
Read my words... when did I say F1 in the post? I thought Obie Juan was a test driver for....a top f1 team a few years back

You didn't say F1. The thread title does.

And yes he was test driver in 1998. Things have changed since then - he hasn't tested or raced a 2000 car yet, let alone a 2001 car.

[Liz]

Oh, when I saw the title I thought we were talking VALUE and I was going to ask "Are you buying or selling?" And here you meant only which is the fastest.

As to which one is the most valuable, it depends on what you want him for, what other people are willing to pay for him, and if you're selling him what you can get in exchange. It also depends a lot on what currency you're going to pay for him in.

TGF is valuable for his sponsorship visibility (although Loreal may drop him after the Red Wig Gig) as well as his driving. Johnny Herbert is more valuable for his visibility and public relations than for his driving. Jean Alesi is sort of a toss-up - a lot of us like him for his driving and for his personality, although as far as results go he would not be so valuable to his team.

[racer10]

Hey Dick. GUess what makes a car good in the rain. THE DRIVER. (ask anyone)

[Liz]

Unless it's the 1990 Ferrari. MAGIC couldn't make that thing good in the rain.