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Old 21 Aug 2014, 15:37 (Ref:3446014)   #1
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Track changes/developments/modifications/suitability

In order to centralize all the different posts in various topic about track changes/developments/modifications/suitability - and not to exhaust viewers with the same type of discussion in most of the recent contributions, I thought it would be a good idea to come up with a dedicated topic where we can all comment/criticise/moan/b#tch/cheer/applaud or rave* about them. (we'll see if it works!)

*whatever you like most!

Recently Spa, Monza, Mosport. Road America, VIR and Indy have all been mentioned and discussed to a certain extent (did I miss one or more? please fill me in).

Just remember Le Mans has it's own dedicated topic in it's subforum, no need to repeat that in here.

@ Mods: if you feel like moving over those earlier, wide spread posts, feel free to move 'm over here. Thx! If not, I can't blame you!

Let the anti-tarmac rage begin Chiana!
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 17:31 (Ref:3446037)   #2
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One that is coming up is Charlotte Motor Speedway. They are putting a couple million into the infield section of the roval making it tighter and a bit more attractive to pro road racing series.
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 17:33 (Ref:3446038)   #3
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One that is coming up is Charlotte Motor Speedway. They are putting a couple million into the infield section of the roval making it tighter and a bit more attractive to pro road racing series.
What's the point in that?
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 17:44 (Ref:3446040)   #4
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What's the point in that?
From what I was told by the people at the track they are trying to get TUDOR.
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 17:55 (Ref:3446041)   #5
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Ah Charlotte. Remember than funny little chicane for ALMS?



And the fans that turned up in masses, just like at Kansas... and Homestead... and Vegas.. and other NASCAR rovals



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Let the anti-tarmac rage begin Chiana!
I'll get back to it...
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 18:10 (Ref:3446044)   #6
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From what I was told by the people at the track they are trying to get TUDOR.
The series just lopped off TWO rovals because nobody showed up. They would be ****ing stupid to add another, especially this one.

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Old 21 Aug 2014, 18:26 (Ref:3446047)   #7
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The series just lopped of TWO rovals. They would be ****ing stupid to add another, especially this one.
I can already see it:

Three 28 minute races for GTD category to be run in conjunction with IMSA Porsche GT3 Canada, held on Memorial weekend in conflict with the Indy 500 and together with Coca-Cola 600, 1pm in the afternoon. Non-points format with mandatory participation and driver changes, no TV coverage. Call it Continental Tire Charlotte Sports Car Challenge presented by Charlotte Beer - Beer around crown town

Wouldn't that sound like the most awesome weekend of racing ever.

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Old 21 Aug 2014, 18:28 (Ref:3446049)   #8
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I can already see it:

Three 28 minute races for GTD category to be run in conjunction with IMSA Porsche GT3 Canada, held on Memorial weekend in conflict with the Indy 500 and Coca-Cola 600. Non-points race with mandatory participation and driver change, no TV coverage. Call it Continental Tire Charlotte Sports Car Challenge presented by Charlotte Beer - Beer around crown town
Uh... the Coca-Cola 600 is also at Charlotte.
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 18:36 (Ref:3446050)   #9
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Uh... the Coca-Cola 600 is also at Charlotte.
Yup, realized almost as soon as posted - fixed it
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 18:42 (Ref:3446051)   #10
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Frankly, the old Charlotte layout was one of the better rovals, with some quick corners in the infield, and even some elevation changes, not counting the banking.

Also, as it was, you couldn't run the full TUSCC field there; at least one class would have to sit out to alleviate traffic issues. Making the course tighter will just make that worse.

On top of that, I can't see how you would satisfy the Safety Brigade without re-doing where the course heads into and out of the infield. Remember the Bob Akin/John Paul Jr. crash at Turn 1 in the tri-oval during the 1985 GTP/Lights race? Not to mention, if the Corvette GTS tire issues at Texas Motor Speedway were any indication, I'm not sure a Charlotte race is such a great idea. Due to the tighter corner radii on the banking, I'd expect some of the cornering loads at Charlotte, or Texas, to be HIGHER than those seen at Daytona.
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 20:49 (Ref:3446080)   #11
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Great intro piece re history and configurations of Sonoma (formerly Sears Point) Raceway in the Indycar section: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142447

Purist, would it be possible to provide a little info about the configuration(s) the ALMS (and maybe some of its predecessors ) ran when they raced there? Thx!
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Old 21 Aug 2014, 21:44 (Ref:3446086)   #12
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Prior to 1998, there really was only the original, 2.520-mile layout at Sears Point. That was the layout that the old IMSA used. The ALMS used it also, for 1999-2001. In 2002-2005, the ALMS used the "Budweiser Bottleneck" bit at the exit of the Turn 7 hairpin, making for a 2.530-mile lap.

The track came along too late for the old USRRC or USAC Sportscar Championship. It was in some limbo for those first 12-13 years, so Can-Am didn't appear there, either.

Lap Records:
IMSA, 2.520 miles- 1:21.409 (111.437-mph), 1990
ALMS, 2.520 miles- 1:20.683 (112.440-mph), 2000
ALMS, 2.530 miles- 1:21.688 (111.497-mph), 2005

I'd expect that a 2007-08 LMP2 could have lapped the place at a tick over 120-mph average, so a low 1:15 on lap time.
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 05:13 (Ref:3446144)   #13
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Say, can we discuss former F1 tracks that got the Tilke-fication? I still want to rant on Fuji Speedway.
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 12:07 (Ref:3446221)   #14
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Say, can we discuss former F1 tracks that got the Tilke-fication? I still want to rant on Fuji Speedway.
Fuji was a disgrace but not nearly on the same level as what was done to the awesomeness of Hockenheim



Tilke's only track I ever really liked was his first one, the A1-Ring - while obviously nowhere near as good as the old Österreichring it was still solid in itself and proved that you can make a memorable shorter track that doesn't have to stand in the shadow of the old venue looking totally embarrased. Of course, today A1/Red Bull Ring has obviously gained large amount of tarmac runoff as you would expect, but the layout is still fine.

Other than that not much else from Hermann... well I guess I also liked Bucharest Ring cause it was such simple layout and not filled with unecessary tight technical sectors, over dramatic architechture and other generic Tilke cliches. But that was probably cause it was never meant for F1...

The rest... .... ... ...

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Old 22 Aug 2014, 13:41 (Ref:3446246)   #15
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Sure that Fuji is a disgrace (and so was Hockenheim), but if only this national track would reprofile into something that's not from Tilke's playbook. Then again, Toyota doesn't care about it since Fuji was fine to them.

On the other hand, will the oval section at Motegi be saved or demolished?
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 18:33 (Ref:3446321)   #16
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As I said on another thread, the pre 2000s Fuji was too short for F1, would have been less than a minute a lap. They needed to lengthen the lap and to be fair it could have been worse. As for Hockenheim it may not have been touted as a classic track, but it was touted as being unique. Now it's just like many others on the calendar.
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 18:44 (Ref:3446322)   #17
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So, I don't understand why you cannot have a bit shorter tracks... I mean, that was the actual reasoning(/excuse) used for Hockenheim's total destruction, shorter laps = audiences could see the cars more often in the Grand Prix. Today you cannot have new short tracks or long tracks or fast tracks or slow tracks or simple tracks, every Grade 1 track needs to have 5,5 km standardized length, same copypaste technical sectors and same general speed. They all look the same too, but that's not (necessarily) all down to Tilke and gang but the FIA safety directives. Meanwhile the old pre/non-Tilke Grade 1 tracks just get the asphalt-treatment and in some cases ugly plastic surgeries (Silverstone etc)
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 20:16 (Ref:3446340)   #18
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I must admit I really like the look and feel of the country style pit garages at VIR.

Hopefully they'll perform a similar distinctive design on the Road America pit update!
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 20:32 (Ref:3446343)   #19
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The changes at Silverstone for the Arena GP Circuit have been pretty comprehensive. I might go so far as to say that it has replaced the Hungaroring among the current calendar as my least favorite European Grand Prix venue, in terms of the track itself and its physical surroundings (or lack thereof).

The homogeneity extends to the F1 starting grids and pit straights as well, as evidenced by the last round of major changes at Spa, among other things.

VIR is very nice, from what I've seen, but I'm more than happy with the open paddock set-up at Road America. It's paved, and rather well-kept, so I don't see what real "improvements" can or need to be made in that area.
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 20:40 (Ref:3446345)   #20
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VIR is very nice, from what I've seen, but I'm more than happy with the open paddock set-up at Road America. It's paved, and rather well-kept, so I don't see what real "improvements" can or need to be made in that area.
This was posted in one of the other topics recently:

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Having said that. There are numerous upgrades planned prior to Sprint Cup coming next year, or over the next two years, not exactly sure of the timelines..new pit tribune, garages, modifications to traps and walls, scoring pylon..lots of good stuff.
and

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The pit garages are supposed to be F1 style, with grandstands, press box, VIP suites etc. above. It's being done in hopes to bring bigger series to the track. Including WSBK/MotoGp, V8 Supercars, and others. The original pits north of those currently used will likely be the support pits instead of the marshalling lane, or grid.

The scoring pylon may not happen, there may be more than one. Nobody can really decide if one is needed, it's only recently been floated..
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Old 22 Aug 2014, 23:30 (Ref:3446374)   #21
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People like to blame Tilke, but he has to design tracks in accordance to guidelines set by a higher power. Thats why they all look the same (not really) or have familiar style turns. I think Fuji is great besides the awkward chicane. But again, thats required for hosting F1 and such. Nothing is going to change that unless the people in charge go. But thats unlikely.
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Old 23 Aug 2014, 04:08 (Ref:3446415)   #22
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People like to blame Tilke, but he has to design tracks in accordance to guidelines set by a higher power. Thats why they all look the same (not really) or have familiar style turns. I think Fuji is great besides the awkward chicane. But again, thats required for hosting F1 and such. Nothing is going to change that unless the people in charge go. But thats unlikely.
Agreed. Had Toyota hit hard with the financial crisis back in 2008, they would have force to sell their beloved Fuji Speedway in order to stay afloat.
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Old 23 Aug 2014, 08:36 (Ref:3446470)   #23
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I doubt that Fuji is a big expense. They have $10's of billions in reserve cash. What was a big relief of expense was dropping F1 though would have been great to see a TF114 built to this years regs with all the hybrid and engine tech.

Speaking of track changes, check out the developments in Sao Paulo, Brazil here.
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Old 23 Aug 2014, 08:40 (Ref:3446471)   #24
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Speaking of track changes, check out the developments in Sao Paulo, Brazil here.
Just looks like resurfacing, general renovation work and that much-vaunted new pitlane entry.
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Old 23 Aug 2014, 09:17 (Ref:3446480)   #25
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Its actually more than that but those are the main parts.
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