How to fix F1?

[greentrumpet]

Reverse grids, please noooooo. If I want to watch bumper cars I can see a far cheaper version, BTCC.

[uesugi kenshin]

Alonso was stuck behind Petrov because Petrov was the better driver.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by uesugi kenshin

Alonso was stuck behind Petrov because Petrov was the better driver.

Please expand....

[S griffin]

I think he's probably trolling

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by uesugi kenshin

Alonso was stuck behind Petrov because Petrov was the better driver.

Well, that takes the prize as the most amusing post of the day!

[Akrapovic]

Russian name. I wonder where the IP is.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Russian name. I wonder where the IP is.

I was intrigued by the name Uesugi Kenshin, so I Googled it and it was the name of a Japanes Daimyō, in C16TH A.D.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I was intrigued by the name Uesugi Kenshin, so I Googled it and it was the name of a Japanes Daimyō, in C16TH A.D.

Yeah, but he wasn't as good as Petrov either.......

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yeah, but he wasn't as good as Petrov either.......

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think he's probably trolling

Or being a loon.

[P38 in workshop]

I thought by now this thread might have given a mention to the apparent proposal for any new team to have to hand over $200 million to be shared among the established players.It seems like a move to the American team franchise system.It also seems to erect an insurmountable barrier to new teams as they will have to find the sum,in addition to a cost cap compliant budget and the funding for an operating base and equipment.I want to see a return to 26 car gids.

[S griffin]

I can understand why they are doing it, the current teams would have a hit to their current prize pot, at a time when money isn’t easy to find. But yes, it is a shame, as we could do with more teams, 10 teams doesn’t feel like enough

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

I thought by now this thread might have given a mention to the apparent proposal for any new team to have to hand over $200 million to be shared among the established players.It seems like a move to the American team franchise system.It also seems to erect an insurmountable barrier to new teams as they will have to find the sum,in addition to a cost cap compliant budget and the funding for an operating base and equipment.I want to see a return to 26 car gids.

Just read about this. Seems like some protectionist nonsense to me and guaranteed to deter any prospective entrants.

[Adam43]

First step to NFL franchise model? Protect those within the sport to make them stronger?

[Richard C]

I think for now it makes sense. It also increases the value of the existing entries. Dorilton Capital timed their purchase of Williams very well!

Richard

[ASCII Man]

I don't think the NFL is anything to emulate, to be honest. Especially not for F1, which is in itself not even that appealing to invest in.

Lets just face it, F1 just hasn't been cool or mainstream since the 90's.

[Adam43]

Why don't you think the NFL is worth emulating? All the teams in that have a good solid foundation. Which has been a criticism of F1. On that basis it could do worse.

Oh and I liked it when it was cool too. It reminds of all the bands I liked before they sucked.

[Casper]

It should ensure that no new teams are developed instead the current teams are guaranted a good price when sold, a closed shop so to speak. It smells of a sport not secure with competition from outside so they have closed the door, I wonder if the buy out of Williams and this decision are related at all. My tin foil hat says if Williams was to be saved then the buyer wanted some gaurantee of getting a good price when the time comes to sell the team some time down the track.

Signed
Cynical

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Casper

It should ensure that no new teams are developed instead the current teams are guaranted a good price when sold, a closed shop so to speak. It smells of a sport not secure with competition from outside so they have closed the door, I wonder if the buy out of Williams and this decision are related at all. My tin foil hat says if Williams was to be saved then the buyer wanted some gaurantee of getting a good price when the time comes to sell the team some time down the track.

Signed
Cynical

I take the reasoning at face value. It's less about competition (it's not competitive today other than 2-3 teams) than it is dilution of profit sharing. Of which profit sharing is probably being advertised as a substantial part of making up operating costs in a cost capped environment. Years ago, new teams was about making the pie larger. Today, they struggled to keep the pie from shrinking. So new teams just make the slices smaller.

If someone truly wants to join, just buy a team and rebrand? We also know that starting a team from scratch just doesn't seem to be viable in the current structure. Haas being the most recent example. I believe even Gene Haas has since stated that if he was to do it over again, it would have been easier to buy an existing team.

What might also happen is that some teams might end up being a bit of a "insert your name here" type of team. You have teams like AlphaTauri, Alpha Romeo and soon to be Alpine and Aston Martin who are owned by one entity, but labelled with another. Who is to say that that trend doesn't continue or even accelerate. You basically don't buy a team, but just have a semi-longterm sponsorship deal in which you have full naming rights. Then once you have met your marketing objectives, you can either exit, continue or if you have deep enough pockets, just buy the team fully and continue. In a sense, Williams keeping the name, may hurt them in the long run (sad to say that).

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If someone truly wants to join, just buy a team and rebrand? We also know that starting a team from scratch just doesn't seem to be viable in the current structure. Haas being the most recent example. I believe even Gene Haas has since stated that if he was to do it over again, it would have been easier to buy an existing team.

i agree with that and also hasent buying an existing team always been preferable to starting one from scratch?

when i first heard this i assumed it was just modern day version of the FIA surety bond but now with money going to the existing teams and not the FIA (although i am sure they still get their cut).

and if we look at the new teams they are typically backed by billionaires (Branson, Mallya, Haas, Stroll), investments firms/hedge funds (Genii, Dorilton Capital, cant recall who bought Sauber) or auto manus (BMW, Merc), or backed by a government (Caterham/Malysian gov't). HRT was combination, i believe, of various really rich Spanish people who then decided not to fork over any of their money.

then we have the lesson of Toyota, who dropped something stupid like a billion dollars before even entering the sport. on the surface that wasn't a big deal (other than to their shareholders), but it did force the other teams to increase how much they were spending and thus began the era of the manufacturers and inflated budgets.

so im ok if no new entries show up until the budget cap has been worked out and is stable enough to survive the arrival of a deep pocket concern.

that said...i am still worried that 200mill is nothing but a speeding ticket to those rich enough to enter.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

that said...i am still worried that 200mill is nothing but a speeding ticket to those rich enough to enter.

Frankly given it is permanent dilution of future earnings for the other teams, I wonder if this one time payment is too cheap! But this is not my area of expertise.

Richard

[Casper]

There are so many things that could bite Liberty on the backside with this entry condition and one is if a team completely folds for whatever reason without selling to another party. Instant loss of two cars and heaven forbid if RB decided to do that because of a political argument for instance and guess what, four cars gone. Toyota did it so I guess it can happen again. This could be a really easy method to persuade Liberty that if a particular team does not get what it wants then they will leave without selling. I think they have just shot themselves in the foot and given the teams huge leverage TTTT.

[chillibowl]

thats a fair point as Toyota did do just that. but i would imagine if Liberty were left short of teams they would have no choice but to incentivize a new buyer for said defunct team...perhaps by waiving the entry fee or offering a continuation or early payment against future prize money for a potential buyer.

i agree though, it makes things more difficult but on the whole and without this new barrier to entry, a new team would have been presumably spending that 200mil on themselves and to the detriment of the smaller teams.

but with Wiliams now sold...are there any small teams left to protect?

Haas i suppose but how many hold much attachment to them?

[Casper]

How about this for a conspiracy theory...... The only way HAAS could be convinced to stay was to ensure that the team could be sold for at least $200 million. I reckon the promoters have just shot themselves in the foot but time will be the judge. It could also be a reasonable conclusion that the only way to make some of the teams viable and commit to the Concorde agreement was to in effect make every team worth $200 million and it is puzzling that the F1 rumour mill never heard a thing. Obviously every team was in favour as it in effect added $200 million equity to every one of them. It just demonstrates how they can agree on something without prolonged discussion, self interest always ensures that.

[Richard C]

Well the word "conspiracy" is somewhat loosely defined. It could be as mundane as just a group agreeing to something, or as aggressive as nefarious or unlawful. I would tend to think it being a secretive act by multiple parties. This limit to expansion is out in the open and upfront that it is to benefit the existing teams. And it would clearly be used as a selling point for teams to sign a new agreement.

Richard