How old is too old?

Kirk · 3 Jan 2005, 22:30 (Ref:1192499)

Schumi turns 36, claims age is not a problem and vows to continue driving in F1 until he no longer "has it". I happen to agree with him, and that todays F1 driver who stays in top shape and has the committment that Schumi has, can go on to 40 and maybe beyond. Some would argue that 35 is old in F1 terms and F1 is a young man's sport ... Schumi is the exception. The question is: How old is too old to compete in F1 these days?

Mr V · 3 Jan 2005, 22:35 (Ref:1192503)

Well, Mansell won his title at the age of 39, Damon 36 when he won his.

These guys are so fit that age isn't the main factor, desire and ambition is.

pirenzo · 3 Jan 2005, 22:44 (Ref:1192515)

I agree with Mr V.
I don't for these guys age will make the slightest difference until they're in their late 40s/early 50s

Dutch chap · 3 Jan 2005, 22:46 (Ref:1192516)

Age is not an issue. It's about determination, fitness, speed and of course: succes.

Mike_Wooshy · 3 Jan 2005, 22:55 (Ref:1192526)

well motovation is also a factor..... aswe have seen many times in the past.

Gabrio · 3 Jan 2005, 23:00 (Ref:1192529)

Andretti lasted a long time and there are many examples of drivers in many categories who were and are competitive in the later stages of their careers. Furthermore F1 is physical, mut not as much as it was a few years ago with slick tires, bigger wings, no power steering and manual gearboxes.

Kicking-back · 3 Jan 2005, 23:09 (Ref:1192543)

F1 2004 was the most physical it's been for many years, in my opinion.

In terms of "too old" - yes, Damon Hill went on until he was 39, but he only did eight seasons of F1.

I think the "I'm back here again" fatigue may be more of a factor.

2005 will be Michael Schumacher's 14th full season of F1 - few drivers have done much more than that - and none of them at the sharp end for their whole career.

**Adam43** · 4 Jan 2005, 09:04 (Ref:1192692)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

In terms of "too old" - yes, Damon Hill went on until he was 39, but he only did eight seasons of F1.

In some ways this is why the average age has fallen. Most drivers now try to get into F1 from when they are six and in karts. Hence if they do make it they are quite young. After five years (at the most) everyone knows whether they are good or not (in most cases) and the search moves on to the next new one. There are only a few who can carry on past this. You need to have won a lot to stay around and not many do that. It is no coincidence that Michael Schumacher is the oldest.

foreversideways · 4 Jan 2005, 09:19 (Ref:1192697)

Everything will be fine for Michael as long as he has a winning car and team around him.The minute Ferrari drop the ball the rot will set in for him. Remember Mansell was still searching for his championship at that age so there was still a great motivation. Physically i am sure most fit drivers could go on untill 40. It's the mental thing, and remember Lauda said he just got sick and tired of going round in circles.

Glen · 4 Jan 2005, 09:35 (Ref:1192699)

36 is old for a top level sportsman - the fact that Sschumacher can still compete (win even) at that age is quite a testament to his professionalism and commitment. Sure, others have gone on for longer, but to be at the top of the game at that age is quite something - especially given the ever more exacting challenge of modern F1.

I think it is possible that the new tyre rules might bring a less frantic dimension to the sport, with the emphasis on consistency and smoothness rather than sprint-like pace - that could play into his hands.

Korr · 4 Jan 2005, 11:07 (Ref:1192736)

Heyyyy....who Says 36 Is All That Old!

Barbazza · 4 Jan 2005, 11:26 (Ref:1192749)

Too slow is too old.

Gt_R · 4 Jan 2005, 12:19 (Ref:1192792)

Yepp.

I agree that motivation and fitness are important in keeping a driver performing. However, i think that both these aspects only help to delay and prolong a driver's span, but there would be a time where age will creep in (slower reaction, needs more training to maintain the level of fitness, etc). And i believe that when these outside factors seeps in, Michael will become more "Beatable".

But a good driver will still be a good driver even if he's older by a couple of years. MS's 36..but he's still way better than DC who's 33, or even some drivers in their late 20s. It's not as if MS is 46 or 56 where age will really be a big issue.

However, F1 is really a young man's game...few modern era drivers could maintain this level of competitiveness in F1 past the 35 barrier...and what MS has achieved is impressive.

Hungary 89 · 4 Jan 2005, 13:03 (Ref:1192826)

I know it was a different era but I'm sure Fangio was well into his forties when he won his last title (infact I don't think he was far from his Fifties)

That said it's fairly obvious that a much highter level of fitness is required these days

Redlake27 · 4 Jan 2005, 13:07 (Ref:1192829)

I think the big issue for any driver including MS, is he number of years doing the job, rather than age.

If Schuey does quit in the next three years, i'm sure it will have more to do with a lack of motivation in doing it for a 17th/18th consecutive year, rather than a fear of not being up to it at 37/38 or whatever.

Indeed, imagine how difficult it must be to get excited when you land at yet another new country to find that the new circuit looks the same as any other Tilke Ring

BootsOntheSide · 4 Jan 2005, 13:12 (Ref:1192831)

The main reason why drivers (and most professional athletes) tend to retire in their mid-late 30s is that they start to lose the motivation to train as hard and spend so much time away from the families they probably have by then. Also, by then they'll've been competing in motor racing for 25/30 years, and it will proabbly be less exciting for most. In F1 the effect is bigger, because the danger is much higher than in other sports. This is especially true of someone like Damon, who found himself in a tough situation of uncompetitive machinery having been at the front.

On the specific question of Michael, I think he'll still be theoretically capable of driving as fast as even in 5 years time. I fact, I think if you got Damon or Mika back in the car, gave them a few weeks to get competitive, and promised them £100m if they can get within 0.5secs of the car's limits, they would manage it.

ralf fan · 4 Jan 2005, 13:54 (Ref:1192847)

It is not about age .... there is no particular age to retire (atleast not nowadays with such fitness training)... It is all about the hunger and motivation to win. If you saw Mika and Damon in their last season they were poor because basically they had lost motivation. When you lose motivation your reflexes get weaker and it takes you double the effort to put in steller drives.
The thing with MS is he just has tremendous motivation hence he can probably keep going till he is 90 years old.
SOme drivers can lose their ability to perform in their late twenties,early thirties... frustration at lack of competitiveness etc. and when this frustration/lack of motivation sets in.... i think that normally is then end of a driver...

Alex Hodgkinson · 4 Jan 2005, 13:55 (Ref:1192850)

Fangio was 47 when he won his last title.

I think a driver is too old only when they loose it...

Glen · 4 Jan 2005, 14:11 (Ref:1192860)

No way could anyone, Fangio included, be still winning races at 45-plus in this day and age. All of sport is getting younger - even snooker players are over the hill in their late thirties these days.

Kirk · 4 Jan 2005, 14:14 (Ref:1192865)

I strongly suspect that in many cases retirement is accelerated from the demands off the track and the constant playing of the F1 political game. MS, for example, has been fortunate (particularly with Ferrari), to be somewhat insulated from much of the **** that goes on behind the scenes. That, and the fact that he has remained at or near the top, surely is a large part of his longevity. I also think that for MS, the significant strides in F1 safety has played a role as well.

Red · 4 Jan 2005, 14:48 (Ref:1192885)

To suspect that some drivers are somehow protected from the outside pressure or political games is childish and absurd. MS was never "insulated" from that shi..stuff, actually it was quite the opposite.

It's not how the driver is protected from it, but rather how does he cope that. Schumacher did well. He still does.

Kirk · 4 Jan 2005, 15:03 (Ref:1192899)

Don't be so sensitive there Red. I simply meant that sometimes being in the right place at the right time can be a godsend. Drivers like RB, DC and MS are examples. While other talented drivers have had a much tougher time of it, some used as pawns in negotiations, switched teams almost annually, been stranded driving for a bottom feeder or been left out in the cold altogether. There are many examples who can be placed on this list, like Herbert, NH, JV, JB, Fisi, MW ..... shoot, even Ant, before he even gets a chance! This can shorten ones career, don't you think?

Red · 4 Jan 2005, 15:13 (Ref:1192902)

JV was in the right place and the right time for example, but he didn't capitalise. JB? He was not in the right place at the right time, but he still has something to say, and I do believe that he has much to say actually, in the next years. Mark Weber as well.

BSchneiderFan · 4 Jan 2005, 15:13 (Ref:1192903)

Autosport ran an article on age a few years back, and the physical evidence seems to suggest that there is no diminution in reaction time, reflexes or ability to train until at least the late 40s. Which leads to the conclusion that most people have come to, that it's all about motivation. Look, for example, at the late, great Bob Wollek. In his mid-50s, he did admit that top-level sportscars were getting too fast for him, but he remained extremely competitive in GTs until his death, because he loved driving. I must say that I don't see any evidence that Schumacher is getting slower; indeed, almost the opposite. I've long thought that he will continue until either Ferrari lose their competitive edge or he has a big shunt which spooks him; even in the former case, I can't see him wanting to go out on a low, so he might even stick around and wait fot good times to come again. And, as I've said before elsewhere on this forum, I still have an inkling he won't quit at the end of 2006, but will continue on a year-by-year basis so long as he's still at the front.

Snrub · 4 Jan 2005, 16:51 (Ref:1192985)

I think F1 has a perception that there is a "too old" age. Today no one gets into F1 at the age Hill did. Potential seats become off limits for a driver who's not had substantial success once they reach a certain age. I really think this approach of F1 is very misguided. Who's going to be the better driver for a mid-field or worse team, the 20 year old from F3 or the 35 year old vertern who knows how it works? The Vetern might not be the next superstar as there's a small chance the 20 year old may be, but their results over a season are going to be better than your average super-hyped rookie. They're probably going to give much better technical data too, which will probably make the car faster than a driver who's .1s per lap faster. Compare to drivers like HHF and Alesi to those like Sato and Massa, or heck even the inconsistant Alonso and Trulli. Over the course of a season who's a bigger asset for a team that's not #1 or #2?

I don't know that I've heard F1 drivers admit this, but drivers in other open wheel series have admitted that when they get older they have to train more to stay competitive and that they do lose a little in terms of reflexes.