Brabham BT21 - Page 11

phdm · 13 Jun 2007, 19:50 (Ref:1936244)

Has anyone ever heard of this car ?

allenbrown · 13 Jun 2007, 19:59 (Ref:1936258)

It looks like a MRD plate but I've never seen one stamped like that.

Wayne Mitchell · 13 Jun 2007, 20:44 (Ref:1936289)

Hi:
I have plaques that were remade about 20 year ago. That is not one of mine nor is it stamped with the correct fonts or manner as an original that I have ever seen.
Cheers, Wayne Mitchell

Steve Wilkinson · 14 Jun 2007, 09:14 (Ref:1936703)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phdm

Has anyone ever heard of this car ?

The font is far too large for the plate, it looks like someone has got hold of a blank plate and stamped it up themselves.

Dan Bruggeman · 18 Jun 2007, 14:10 (Ref:1940802)

Does anyone have any records or history of BT21-25 chassis?
Possibly running in Europe as an F3 car.
Thanks in advance-
Dan

phdm · 19 Jun 2007, 19:22 (Ref:1941958)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phdm

Has anyone ever heard of this car ?

The answer was obviously yes as it was reported by Robert_R on April 23 on this very page.

Everybody seems to be blind or sleeping including myself !

The car is now for sale in Holland for silly money and with dubious history.

Details and pics can be found here:

http://thegallery.hexon.cx/s94dfdd59...ls/?sid=895220

Other information:
"Gearbox: H8-2295
We bought the car from Switserland,has been racing over the years.
Has been raced by Ronnie Perterson." (what else ? !!)

No AM number reported.

Dave Mitchell · 30 Jun 2007, 20:29 (Ref:1950824)

Awesome thread and very helpful. Have just purchased BT-21-B-31. Description as below reasonably accurate (reference to F2 perhaps not). Bought from I. Liu who purchased the car from Tony Singer at Spyder Enterprises in about 1988. Don O'Rosco sold it to Spyder Enterprises. An older restoration but it is all there so hopefully not a major to get it back on the track. Sales included spare mechanical bits and pieces and a few panels. Motor and gearbox both seem sound. Have contacted John at the Brabham Register and shared the above with him also. He has some history of BT-21-B-31 but if anyone else can contribute it would be much appreciated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

As the ebay advert won't be available for ever, it says:

Brabham BT-21 Formula 2 Race Car Chasis #BT-21-31

I've been holding on to this beauty for way too long and it's time for me to let it go since I need more storage space for my motorcycle collection. Local pick-up only or you can you hire your own delivery service. Don't hesitate to email me with any questions or for more detailed photos.

Brabham BT-21 Formula 2
Chasis #BT-21-3T (The last chasis built)
Total concours quality restoration and race preparation.
Lotus twin cam 1600cc; Hewland 5 speed.
Engine cowl, some misc. parts.
Have matching McLaren from the same pre wing mid 60's era.

Plus two pictures dated 1990.

Wayne Mitchell · 30 Jun 2007, 21:33 (Ref:1950865)

Not withstanding the provenance each car come with, a BT21 B car left the factory as a Formula 3 car with a 1000cc engine or the engine bay arranged to accept the owners 1000cc 30 degree Ford based engine. Look at the area at the base where the roll over bar is welded to the left top frame rail. Immediately behind it is the water connection to the upper left frame rail.
In the corner is the two gussest to which the engine bay brace was attached. This is seldom removed in the conversion to a Twin cam or any other engine becasue it is a pain to remove and cleam up. There is also a brace missing in the top of the engine bay on most cars although it is easier to add if ne is so inclined. So, a BT21 B is not the long lost BT21 formula two car and may be a Formula B car or Formula Ford ( I converted 1.)made from a Formula 3 car.
Just trying to keep the record straight.
Cheers to all Wayne Mitchell

Len Marchant · 1 Jul 2007, 11:03 (Ref:1951091)

Hi I am new to this site and I bought this car in 1973, I am at the moment restoring it back to F.3. Specification as I ran it for many years as a F.F.1600.
I will post more informaion soon.

Chris Townsend · 1 Jul 2007, 13:12 (Ref:1951269)

Welcome Len

I remember you running your Brabham in F.Ford at Lydden in the seventies (and the hillclimb at Bodiam IIRC). Look forward to hearing more on its origins.

Chris

Wayne Mitchell · 1 Jul 2007, 15:52 (Ref:1951473)

Hi: It wasn't me in a Brabham FF in UK or Europe. Never drove one except testing in USA. I converted one from a FIII car in fall of 1969 for a customer. I have not seen that car since 1972.
Cheers Wayne Mitchell, just trying to keep the record straight.

Teretonga · 27 Jul 2007, 12:14 (Ref:1974736)

I agree with David M. Bakers car was the ex Harvey car which was ex Charles Lucas (Harvey ran it in Lucas colours).
Bill Stone was in Europe by 1969 initially in a BT18/21 update. Later in a BT21 F3?
Hawthornes BT21 was supposedly put together by him at the factory while he worked for them as a mechanic.

Teretonga · 28 Jul 2007, 00:40 (Ref:1975080)

Hi Allen
Kelvin Cameron did have a BT21 but I don't know if it was a BT21 or a 21-A.
he raced it intermittently for a year or two and sold it in the South Island of NZ so it may have ended up with one of the Christchurch guys like Russ Noble or even have become the ELK....
As posted elsewhere I think you can guarantee the Hawthorne /Taylor BT21 as new when it arrived in NZ so it may have been the last of the 21C's. Sorry I don't have the chassis number.

David McKinney · 5 Aug 2007, 17:39 (Ref:1981778)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Kelvin Cameron did have a BT21 but I don't know if it was a BT21 or a 21-A.

Nope.
He had a BT18 (ex-McCully) and later a BT23C

Andrew Fellowes · 5 Aug 2007, 20:58 (Ref:1981944)

David would this be BT23C-7, I have it listed on ORC.com as 'raced by Harris & others' which is a bit vague and I would like to tighten it up.

Andrew

David McKinney · 7 Aug 2007, 17:23 (Ref:1983538)

No, its replacement, which may or may not have been BT23C-17

Teretonga · 8 Aug 2007, 03:49 (Ref:1983662)

David is right about the BT23C. I have no problem with that but was surprised about the BT 18. I had thought it was a BT21.A

Question for David
Who had the BT18 before McCully (I am just trying to get it sorted out in my head where it came from).

David McKinney · 8 Aug 2007, 21:52 (Ref:1984449)

1967 Levis, 1968 Shaw (and Levis), 1969 McCully, 1970 Cameron
The other NZ BT18 went:
1967-68 Lawrence, 1969-70 Nicholson (and various guests)

David Irwin · 15 Aug 2007, 16:44 (Ref:1989657)

I may be able to help with 2 BT21A's that I restored. Both cars had original Chassis tags and both cars arrived with their original FT200's.

BT21A-4 was originally the Smothers Brothers car, the car went to John Sorbello who widened the cockpit section into a 2 seater and added a Chevron B16 Body, car then went to John Kauffman (he thought he had a Chevron), this car then to Joe Maria and restored by me back to original, car still with J. Maria.

BT21A-10 The story as I remember, the car sat in a barn in Michigan w/ BT21A-1 both belonging to Richard Cole, Chuck Maranto bought both cars, He eventually sold both cars, I personally bought BT21-10 and restored it and sold it to John Coughlin, car then to David Jacobs in Colorado, where it is now.

Hope that helps some.
David Irwin
Evergreen, Co.

allenbrown · 15 Aug 2007, 18:06 (Ref:1989715)

David

Thanks for this.

Is this the same John Sorbello who had a Can-Am car believed to have been built out of a McRae GM1?

Allen

David Irwin · 15 Aug 2007, 21:40 (Ref:1989830)

Maybe... He did a lot of creative things out of formula cars. I bought a March 702 from him w/ Osella bodywork, and he has a March 80A w/ bodywork of his own creation. Interesting guy. Don't know about the McRae. David

allenbrown · 15 Aug 2007, 22:19 (Ref:1989846)

A March 702 with Osella bodywork?!? Please tell more.

Maybe the Sorbello Can-Am car wasn't a McRae after all. It was a 5-litre car and ran in 1979 as #19 and then in 1981 as #49. Tony LaRosa drove it at Trois-Rivières on its only 1980 appearance and then drove an Osella of some sort at Trois-Rivières in 1981. When did Sorbello build the March/Osella?

David Irwin · 15 Aug 2007, 23:43 (Ref:1989881)

I don't know when. I bought the car mid to late 90's. Car was the March 702-5, it had a Cosworth BDD in it and ran C sports in SCCA. No 5 liter. The Osella bodywork was from an early 80's 2 liter. This car is now on your side of the pond.

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO.

Chris Townsend · 16 Aug 2007, 07:26 (Ref:1990001)

David,

Three questions:

21A-1 and 10. Do you have any dates on the ownership you gave?

Whereabouts is Sorbello based? I'm wondering if this BSR March 702 connects up with the 702 run by Frank Simpson in the early 1970s.

Also, would love to know more about the March 80A he's currently got. Charles Warner has a couple of SCCA logs for 80As that have got separated ffrom now vanished cars. This might be one of them.

Chris

David Irwin · 16 Aug 2007, 13:31 (Ref:1990218)

It was BT21A-4 and 10. The BT21A-4 went to Joe Maria in the early 90's. The BT21a-10 went from me to John Coughlin in the late 90's.

Sorbello was based just north of Boston, MA.

I should have said 'had' not 'has' for the March 80A, Simon Hadfield bought the car, kept it in the US. Don't know where it is now.

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO

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