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Old 25 Nov 2019, 01:21 (Ref:3942661)   #76
Purist
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I took another look at the track, and also found an updated layout with the tweak for this year. So here are my thoughts, within the rough framework we have.

1. Straighten the approach to Turn 1. In addition, ease the apex at T1 by rounding it off and bringing the curb in just a little. This will make T1 itself roomier, and therefore better for overtaking; the increased apex speed will reduce the accordion effect up the hill, keeping the cars closer together on the approach to Turn 2, giving a better shot there as well.

2. Round off the profile of the curbing at Turn 6, so you don't have that sharp point upsetting the cars right in the middle of the corner. This will allow closer running, and possibly more overtaking opportunities into the stairsteps at Turns 7-9.

3. Smooth the profile of the curves and kinks from Nobby's Rd. to Turn 11; making it so the cars are less on-edge, and you have more useful, extra width to set up a move, will help substantially into the hairpin. And yes, undo the change made to T11 for this year; it's not really helping, and going back to a slightly quicker apex will improve the chances of successful dives into T12 once more.

More minor stuff would be, possibly, taking out the curbing altogether at a few of those 90-degree corners, like Turns 2, 7, and 8.

If run-off could be sorted, reversing the course direction might be a net positive. The overtaking potential at the end of the pit stretch going that way could well be better. Also, those bends and kinks on Nobby's Rd. would be slower, hopefully making them easy flat, giving a more straightforward run into the braking zone at the then right-hander that is currently Turn 9. Of course, since the initial pull out at the start of the run going either way is uphill, it may be kind of six one, half-a-dozen the other in that section. The other big help with running clockwise would be that Watt St. becomes a downhill run.

In terms of topography and overtaking, consider how close guys stick together going down the hill from La Source to Eau Rouge at Spa. Now, on the other hand, think how far up the Dottinger Hohe on the Nordschleife guys have to get before even considering an overtake.

Ironically, Nobby's Rd. would be one place where more downforce would likely help, by making the run through there easy flat, which would allow the guys to focus on setting up a move, rather than having to be consumed with just keeping the cars on the road.
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 01:43 (Ref:3942670)   #77
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360 days a year, it's a public road so not much you can do to it. Things like drainage, the light rail network, and underground traffic light sensors need to be considered.

The other thing too, is extending the length extends the cost of setup and packdown. The turn 11 hairpin extension wasn't much in the way of an extra cost.
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 03:19 (Ref:3942684)   #78
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Originally Posted by johnh875 View Post
Haven't seen Saturday but could it be a case of when you line the cars up in order of fastest to slowest can you be surprised when that's how they stay? Of course the pitstops should trigger some action in that regard.

Sunday was a bit different with fast cars coming from the back of the grid.

In addition to aero, they need to look at ways of reducing the advantage the big teams have or should I say increase the opportunity for getting out-of-order grids.
I'm not surprised when fast cars win - that's a disappointing statement to make - but I think it's more than reasonable to say that there should be some battles and fighting along the way, rather than just a procession. Wouldn't you agree?

I watched the highlights for Sunday. 4 overtakes shown (and one more that ruined both cars). Two on the first lap, one between teammates and finally what looked like a proper contest between SVG and Waters. More of that please, and for longer.

Contrast that with the racing here:
https://youtu.be/bFnWmxMEtNY

I know Newcastle is a very tough place to pass, but on track action has become a real rarity on all tracks.
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 06:03 (Ref:3942693)   #79
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Originally Posted by djr81 View Post
If they cut the downforce like they promise then maybe... That and better fuel endurance.



As an aside - Tickford most improved team? Ignoring the occasional driver muppetry, obviously.
Has the fastest car ever seen relative to the competition, and Lee Holdsworth gets beaten in in the standings by Nick Percat.

The excuse book was well worn out in the first half of the year while all of the Mustangs had speed to burn. How he has kept that drive when there is a lot of talent out there I do not know.

And I would suggest if Simona has said yes he might not have kept it...
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 06:22 (Ref:3942696)   #80
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Interesting to note how Lee's championship standing increased significantly by switching from Team 18 to TR; while Frosty's worsened by switching from TR to T18, even after they supposedly bought a winning package from 888.
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 07:08 (Ref:3942697)   #81
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Umai Naa, there's a reason I looked at changes that didn't require circuit extension or wholesale changes, really. I blunted my own mention of a reverse of direction even right from the off.

In actual fact, the original Newcastle proposal kind of had the first item on my list. That kink before Turn 1 was farther back from the corner proper, and less pronounced as well.

I'm kind of suspicious, given the amount such things keep getting mentioned by the commentators, including Skaife, that there is a certain amount of intentionally trying to put bits of other street circuits in, rather than necessarily making the best use out of what Newcastle actually has to offer. In particular, it's things like the Parkland sweeps and hairpin from Adelaide, and the approach to Turn 1 from Surfers Paradise, that keep coming up.

So yes, I know there are definite limitations here, but then again, I'm fairly certain there are some bits that could be done decidedly better in terms of helping things on the racing front.
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 09:11 (Ref:3942704)   #82
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Interesting to note how Lee's championship standing increased significantly by switching from Team 18 to TR; while Frosty's worsened by switching from TR to T18, even after they supposedly bought a winning package from 888.
Lee was was having trouble early in the season but improved markedly towards the end.
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Old 26 Nov 2019, 00:21 (Ref:3942846)   #83
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Has the fastest car ever seen relative to the competition, and Lee Holdsworth gets beaten in in the standings by Nick Percat.

The excuse book was well worn out in the first half of the year while all of the Mustangs had speed to burn. How he has kept that drive when there is a lot of talent out there I do not know.

And I would suggest if Simona has said yes he might not have kept it...
He struggled early as the Tickford set up was alien to him, but he has improved as the seasson has worn on. Mostert has gone a bit the other way. Waters appears to have improved, atleast in qualifying.

The Shell Mustangs had speed to burn early in the year, less so the Tickford cars.
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Old 26 Nov 2019, 04:43 (Ref:3942877)   #84
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Originally Posted by leothedrummer View Post
I'm not surprised when fast cars win - that's a disappointing statement to make - but I think it's more than reasonable to say that there should be some battles and fighting along the way, rather than just a procession. Wouldn't you agree?

I watched the highlights for Sunday. 4 overtakes shown (and one more that ruined both cars). Two on the first lap, one between teammates and finally what looked like a proper contest between SVG and Waters. More of that please, and for longer.

Contrast that with the racing here:
https://youtu.be/bFnWmxMEtNY

I know Newcastle is a very tough place to pass, but on track action has become a real rarity on all tracks.
I thought they showed more of SVG's overtakes?

There are many factors that discourage overtaking, eg under/overcut via pit strategy is easier than passing on track. Not easy to fix either - eg with no pit stops flatspotting a tyre is a bigger problem. Teams soon gravitate to common strategy.

Haven't watched the vid yet, but a non-championship race isn't necessarily representative.
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Old 26 Nov 2019, 23:10 (Ref:3943092)   #85
leothedrummer
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Originally Posted by johnh875 View Post
I thought they showed more of SVG's overtakes?

There are many factors that discourage overtaking, eg under/overcut via pit strategy is easier than passing on track. Not easy to fix either - eg with no pit stops flatspotting a tyre is a bigger problem. Teams soon gravitate to common strategy.

Haven't watched the vid yet, but a non-championship race isn't necessarily representative.
Just to clarify, I only watched the highlights package so I can't comment on the actual race itself. They very well may have, I've just become so used to the on track action being severely lacking.

100% agree with those factors you mention - I've been extremely anti-fuel drop for this very reason. Also really like that you've mentioned tyres as being an area that could yield benefits. Most glaring example I can recall was Queensland Raceway 2016, with Michael Caruso following Chaz Mostert for many laps, finally making a single passing attempt (which just involved going off line and braking slightly deeper into the corner), only for that passing attempt to kill the tyres and any chance of a battle happening. I'd be very curious to see what would happen if we had more tyre / mechanical grip.

I'd seriously encourage you to watch the race I linked, because it's proper racing, pure racing with no gimmicks. Just real on track action. And I can attest that being an exhibition race has nothing to do with it - I've been watching Super GT since 2014 and can assure you that the on track product is consistently some of the most exciting and engaging racing in the world. Most important in this context though, is the ability for the cars to follow closely, pass, repass, attack, defend. Actually race. Somewhere along the way, we've lost that.
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