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Old 18 Nov 2019, 00:21 (Ref:3941281)   #31
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Phelps article.

Holds as much water as a colender.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 00:25 (Ref:3941282)   #32
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Phelps article.

Holds as much water as a colender.
Not in this case.

References the exact number of technical checks done on both the DJRTP and 888 cars to date; and includes many direct quotes from Dick himself.

Which part(s) of the article, if any, would you believe to be factually incorrect?
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 00:55 (Ref:3941286)   #33
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bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
The engine was tested and sealed by Supercars
The spec sheet that Supercars generated for the engine before qualifying was withing the limits.
Do Supercars actually measure the engine as it is assembled, or do they simply apply seals on the engine the first time that it is taken to a race meeting?
As I understand it, the spec sheet is generated by the engine builder as he assembles the engine, not Supercars.

If this is the case, then the seals simply show that the engine hasn't been touched since Supercars put their seal on it.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 05:01 (Ref:3941307)   #34
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Originally Posted by Forda View Post
Not in this case.

References the exact number of technical checks done on both the DJRTP and 888 cars to date; and includes many direct quotes from Dick himself.

Which part(s) of the article, if any, would you believe to be factually incorrect?
Not surprised to find that this is the case, supercars have shown their true colours this year, now they'll have their new VCAT next year with holden getting preferential treatment.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 05:22 (Ref:3941309)   #35
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Not surprised to find that this is the case, supercars have shown their true colours this year, now they'll have their new VCAT next year with holden getting preferential treatment.
But how on earth do they manage to justify 486 scrutineering checks on DJRTP in less than a year?

And then the grandstanding shown when a single minute thing was found on, as Dick said, a "rooted" engine.

Who in particular is behind this push exactly?
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 05:49 (Ref:3941316)   #36
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But how on earth do they manage to justify 486 scrutineering checks on DJRTP in less than a year?

And then the grandstanding shown when a single minute thing was found on, as Dick said, a "rooted" engine.

Who in particular is behind this push exactly?
It's institutionalised cheating by those that are running the show imo, no wonder Nissan got out.

Good to see that Dick spoke up, he needed to do that.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 06:17 (Ref:3941317)   #37
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But how on earth do they manage to justify 486 scrutineering checks on DJRTP in less than a year?
Isn't 486 how many points Scotty won the championship by?

C'mon, you have to see it's the technical department doing their due diligence. It's a parity series where (ATM) one guy dominates - why would they check any other car?

I think they realize the domination is more Scotty than Mustang, but they have to at least appear to be rectifying it, otherwise the more reactionary would claim conspiracy from the red pulpit opposite yours
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 06:26 (Ref:3941318)   #38
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It's institutionalised cheating by those that are running the show imo, no wonder Nissan got out.
Not just Nissan, but AMG and Volvo before them as well.

Interesting too, is no one new has joined the series.
And why would they want to? - the whole Mustang saga paves an interesting precedent.

Pretty short-sighted of the series to cut off it's nose to spite it's face.
What would they do if GM pulled out of Australia, like they have in other parts of the world?

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Good to see that Dick spoke up, he needed to do that.
Absolutely; and the true facts are now there in black and white.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 07:16 (Ref:3941319)   #39
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Forda View Post
But how on earth do they manage to justify 486 scrutineering checks on DJRTP in less than a year?

And then the grandstanding shown when a single minute thing was found on, as Dick said, a "rooted" engine.

Who in particular is behind this push exactly?
are you Australian? What don't you understand about the Tall Poppy syndrome?
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 08:54 (Ref:3941331)   #40
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Isn't 486 how many points Scotty won the championship by?

C'mon, you have to see it's the technical department doing their due diligence. It's a parity series where (ATM) one guy dominates - why would they check any other car?

I think they realize the domination is more Scotty than Mustang, but they have to at least appear to be rectifying it, otherwise the more reactionary would claim conspiracy from the red pulpit opposite yours
Rectify someone that is a better driver???..........that's a strange comment!
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 09:00 (Ref:3941337)   #41
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Not just Nissan, but AMG and Volvo before them as well.

Interesting too, is no one new has joined the series.
And why would they want to? - the whole Mustang saga paves an interesting precedent.

Pretty short-sighted of the series to cut off it's nose to spite it's face.
What would they do if GM pulled out of Australia, like they have in other parts of the world?



Absolutely; and the true facts are now there in black and white.
Any CEO of a manufacturer that would join this series would have to have rocks in his head, look what happens when you are better than holden, you get dragged through the mud !
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 11:15 (Ref:3941371)   #42
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I'm failing to see the fuss.

New Tech Department are far more thorough than the previous...they check more things.

The numbers listed are total tests, not total individual scrutineering sessions - there are multiple tests conducted in a single scrutineering session.

Cars that place on the podium are always scrutinised more often and more thoroughly than the few random place-getters that also get tested. After the amount of success Scotty has had this year it is no surprise his car has been checked the most; just as it is no surprise that Red Bull are the second most checked team.

A tech breach was identified in 1 of the 325 tests of car 17. How many tech breaches were identified in the other 2731 tests? I don't recall any.

Good to see Dick admit the Bathurst stuff shouldn't have happened. He's right...shouldn't matter how many times a car is tested, it should be expected to pass every time. Shame they could not get through the entire season without a tech breach, but given they were found to have 2 separate tech breaches last year with less scrutineering it is an improvement. Let's hope next year they get a full season of no technical breaches...something for them to aim for...because one breach is one too many no matter how many times you are tested.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 12:13 (Ref:3941385)   #43
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I'm failing to see the fuss.

New Tech Department are far more thorough than the previous...they check more things.
What evidence, other than the sheer increase in number of tests done on on DJRTP, proves they are more thorough, as opposed to simply more numerous?

And why are they supposedly more 'thorough' suddenly now, than say in 2016/2017 when Red Bull were notching up the majority of wins?

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Originally Posted by Jamolad View Post
A tech breach was identified in 1 of the 325 tests of car 17. How many tech breaches were identified in the other 2731 tests? I don't recall any.
And how many other tests were done on engines which were on their way out, or had expired?

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Good to see Dick admit the Bathurst stuff shouldn't have happened. He's right...shouldn't matter how many times a car is tested, it should be expected to pass every time.
Not a test on a 'rooted' engine - that is the point at hand.

The only thing they could find in 486 tests was less than the thickness of a piece of paper on some, but not all of, the valve lift tolerances in a dying engine.

And holding off on the details until two races later, and then making the announcement at the start of the Sandown race - looks more like amateur hour than anything professional or thorough.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 12:50 (Ref:3941392)   #44
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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The only thing they could find in 486 tests was less than the thickness of a piece of paper on some, but not all of, the valve lift tolerances in a dying engine.
How many sheets of paper would you allow if you were the scrutineer before deeming the motor illegal? It is a funny thing in motor sport or the motor sport I have been racing in for too many years, they write the regs for a reason with a hard limit on stuff like this so people will not fudge the limits. Give an engine builder a tolerance and he will push all the way to the tolerance prescribed in the regs so there may as well be a hard limit with no tolerance. Engine builders are there to derive as much HP as they can and if that means cheating they will and will deny it with a straight face. Been there and done that.

So the question remains, how far over the limit on lift can a motor be before it is deemed illegal? Two sheets of paper, or three or maybe five, I seek your wise answer.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 13:03 (Ref:3941393)   #45
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Forda should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Once again, the tolerances relevant to a healthy engine, or on one that is not?
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