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Old 14 Jan 2020, 16:16 (Ref:3951581)   #16
V8 Fireworks
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NASCAR has a similarly ambitious plan for 2021, should Supercars follow their lead?

https://racingnews.co/2020/01/09/mor...-next-gen-car/

Headline points:
- Possibly V6 engines
- Probable hybrid system

NASCAR Cup cars are also changing to 18Ē wheels, possibly centrelock wheel nuts, onboard air jacks, composite bodywork and independent rear suspension
.. These are massive changes for Nascar racing, though of course Supercars already have all these things.

Ford are particularly thrilled about the hybrid powertrains:

"Where our entire world is going, the plan across all manufacturers across the world, is everybodyís cars and trucks will be shifting toward hybrid and electric. "

"You still have a fantastic internal combustion engine in your hybrid street car or hybrid race car and you can add some excitement and performance to it with an electric motor providing even more assists as well. "

"Knowing thatís where our road cars and trucks are going in the future, the ability to tell our customers about it is important. "
- Mark Rushbrook, executive director, Ford Performance

https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cu...n-car/4614805/

NASCAR seem on track, where is the Supercars plan to keep manufacturers such as Ford Performance engaged in Supercars?
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 16:26 (Ref:3951582)   #17
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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Supercars days are very much numbered, they have painted themselves into a corner and there is no return from it
If Nascar, not long ago addicted to leaded petrol and carburettors, can modernise then why can't Supercars?

It would be amusing indeed if it's Nascar that's racing modern high thermal efficiency hot vee twin-turbo V6 hybrids, while Supercars are still racing cast iron pushrod V8s from the 1960s!
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 18:57 (Ref:3951602)   #18
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as you already said Supercars is already ahead of NASCAR with some of the 'tricky bits' on the cars, there is nowhere left to go except down - and that is where they are headed
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 19:07 (Ref:3951606)   #19
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Supercars days are very much numbered, they have painted themselves into a corner and there is no return from it - just look at how the TCR series is gaining fan momentum
Funny old world isn't it? I love the Supercars series as the majority of saloon car racing in Europe is TCR now which leaves me cold. Yet the Aussies seem to be embracing it. Guess we all love what we don't have.
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 22:57 (Ref:3951645)   #20
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Funny old world isn't it? I love the Supercars series as the majority of saloon car racing in Europe is TCR now which leaves me cold. Yet the Aussies seem to be embracing it. Guess we all love what we don't have.
TCR event crowds are minimal, so not sure how well it is actually being embraced as a whole.
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 23:22 (Ref:3951653)   #21
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Yep TCR it seems is growing as fast as VASC is declining and disappearing up its own orifice.
Must be getting tough if TCR is gaining momentum?!

Bloody horrible things and resemble proper touring cars about as much ad DTM do.
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 01:31 (Ref:3951663)   #22
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When you run into a member of the Supercar's Technical Department
at a TCR race last year and their words to me where
"this will be us in 4 to 5 years", makes you think the writing is on the wall.
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 03:15 (Ref:3951673)   #23
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Must be getting tough if TCR is gaining momentum?!

Bloody horrible things and resemble proper touring cars about as much ad DTM do.
How on earth are TCR "bloody horrible things", they are much more similar to the Megane RS or Golf GTI that you drive everyday.

A HSV GTS you might drive everyday (if you can afford the fuel, the tyres and the brakes etc) is much further removed from the Wakinshaw Andretti supercar.
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 03:43 (Ref:3951677)   #24
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Is there really enough money in the series to go hybrid? I thought costs were are source of pain now, with V8's - can't imagine hybrids will help there.

The cars/series needs to be simplified to reflect the realities of racing cars in Australia.
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 05:47 (Ref:3951682)   #25
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Is there really enough money in the series to go hybrid? I thought costs were are source of pain now, with V8's - can't imagine hybrids will help there.



The cars/series needs to be simplified to reflect the realities of racing cars in Australia.


The costs indeed are a source of pain and costs canít go up they need to go down by at least a third if not half. Change must come but it wonít involve hybrids. Itíll involve some short term pain but it means the series will be better in the long run. Itís not the the heyday of the early 2000s anymore where manufacturers tip big money into the sport and the fight for sponsor dollars is so much harder in this day and age. The longer we go down this path without any meaningful change the more teams weíll lose as most donít have the financial clout of Penske or Triple 8. This change should have happened or be happening already but itís not.
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 07:42 (Ref:3951691)   #26
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TCR event crowds are minimal, so not sure how well it is actually being embraced as a whole.
Crowds would be fine if TCR cars were competing for the main prizes at the Superloop 500, Supercheap Auto 1000, ITM 400 in NZ, Townsville 400, Gold Coast 600 etc etc

If it is sold to the fans as the age old series just with a different set of regs, the majority of fans will just blindly buy it
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 08:42 (Ref:3951697)   #27
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TCR crowds were small last year

but they had minimal promotion or publicity and were only shown on SBS with shoe string budget

This year, with s5000 and TCM and other support classes, 4 hour live coverage on ch7, with a lot of promotion, it just might do a "world series cricket"
The crowd for WSC were terrible to begin with, sell out crowds after a year or so.
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 09:02 (Ref:3951698)   #28
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
How on earth are TCR "bloody horrible things", they are much more similar to the Megane RS or Golf GTI that you drive everyday.

A HSV GTS you might drive everyday (if you can afford the fuel, the tyres and the brakes etc) is much further removed from the Wakinshaw Andretti supercar.
How is that a definition of a good racing car? The closer it is in DNA to your everyday car the better it is? That's not what I, or anyone I know, wants out of a racing car.
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 09:24 (Ref:3951699)   #29
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Originally Posted by Scrut View Post
When you run into a member of the Supercar's Technical Department
at a TCR race last year and their words to me where
"this will be us in 4 to 5 years", makes you think the writing is on the wall.
Were they referring to the type of cars being raced, or the fanfare and crowd size?
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Old 15 Jan 2020, 10:33 (Ref:3951708)   #30
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How is that a definition of a good racing car? The closer it is in DNA to your everyday car the better it is? That's not what I, or anyone I know, wants out of a racing car.
Unless I have forgotten something "The closer it is in DNA to your everyday car the better it is", is EXACTLY what the point of touring car racing is!


As Tiff Needel says, "The Ford Sierra touring car is not a pukka racer. The bodyshell is full of holes. A touring car is a compromise. It's a road car made into a racer. It doesn't have the rigidity of a pukka racer, it rolls in the corners. What results is a lot of arm twirling and a lot of fun.Ē
Link: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iJl0-daCCHs

If you wanted to build a race car from scratch you don't give it four doors and a roof and even a boot (!)...

You'd start by putting the engine on the floor in the middle as a structural component of the vehicle, a lightweight carbon monocoque to hold the driver who is also sitting on the floor, inboard suspension etc... Hey presto you have your formula car or LMP car.

Touring cars are not proper race cars, so why shouldn't they reflect the car you drive? Whether it's 1989 and the car you drive to work is a Nissan Skyline GTS coupe or Ford Sapphire Cosworth, or it's 2020 and the car you drive to work is a Golf GTI or Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce.

That's doesn't mean Supercars should adopt TCR. There is an open opportunity for Supercars to race cars *based* on the Alfa Giulia Quadrifolgio, BMW M3, Mercedes C63 AMG, Jaguar XE R and so on...

That's the modern market for four door rear drive performance cars, so that's the segment Supercars needs to target if they want to race those kinds of touring cars.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 15 Jan 2020 at 10:47.
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