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Old 21 Mar 2003, 20:12 (Ref:543489)   #1
redshoes
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Unauthorised photo use

This is probably more of a legal question than photography query but hopeful someone can help.

The week's Autosport includes glossy centre pages ad for the SEAT Cupra Championship. Part of the ad is a list of drivers, some with pictures. Top of the list is Spencer Marsh (see attachment below) with what looked liked a very familar picture. sure enough, it was one of mine (see http://www.redshoes-racing.com/Drive...cerMarsh.shtml )

I was never contacted about this and new nothing about until I opened the mag. It's only a postage stamp sized pic so I wouldn't have expected to be paid that much but it would have been nice to have been asked.

So, what is it worth and what should I do next?
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Old 21 Mar 2003, 20:34 (Ref:543515)   #2
Snapper Baz
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Snapper Baz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnapper Baz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If it is yours-then think where it could have been nicked from. Contact Autosport and ask for the Ad'dept and ask for a contact from SEAT who placed the ad with them-INSIST on a name and number regarding the ad. Once you have contacted them (SEAT)ask where they got it from and who gave them permission to use the picture and THEN tell them its yours and say you want a car off them! Seriously though, having prooved its yours ask them what should be owed to you for having copyright on the picture and ask why you wasn't contacted first...kick some A**E!
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Old 21 Mar 2003, 21:32 (Ref:543563)   #3
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
You need to send them apolite letter explaining that you have implied copyright on the photo used in their publication and ask recompense for it. If this fails then basically send another letter with an attorney's letterhead on it.
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Old 21 Mar 2003, 21:41 (Ref:543568)   #4
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
ooh er, don't do that I work there on MN! I'll find out whether we did the ad or seat for you, also things will be hectic there on monday as we are moving and Autosport are moving in with us.
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Old 22 Mar 2003, 01:47 (Ref:543760)   #5
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
publishing an ad in a magazine costs money (a fair amount depending on circulation numbers etc etc) , the graphic artist/layout person who made up the ad got paid, and so the photographer whose photo is in it is to be paid as well, its that simple.

Here in Canada, the rates are linked to the type of publication, how many copies are printed (Autosport must be 100's of thousands) and then finally the printed size of the picture (full page, 1/2, 1/4 or less)

I just went and looked up the details in the documentation we use, and 1/4page and less (doesn't get smaller than this) for a magazine of 100,00-250,000 copies should be charged around $60can, so 25 pounds perhaps(for a ONE TIME USE) --although, given the fact that you guys are royally jerked around by the market (Ripoff Britain) with EVERYTHING being much more expensive than here, I would hazard a guess that it should be more.

Just send the people who put the ad out (SEAT or whoever) an invoice for "X" amount, they know they should pay photographers. Do it right away, make it look proper etc, phone the people involved to check up on it, and if they don't pay, it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle of more action, but if you don't send in an invoice, they wont pay you. (and whatever you do, don't call or contact them and ask, "would it be possible etc etc", just send in an invoice with all the pertinent details of publication dates etc etc. Try asking any working photogs over there to get a better ballpark figure.

good luck He Who Wears Red Shoes.
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Old 22 Mar 2003, 10:31 (Ref:544013)   #6
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There are two contact numbers listed in the ad - give them a call and ask what's going on? Did you receive an email from Andy Blackmore recently? I'm not sure if the two are connected?
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Old 22 Mar 2003, 10:41 (Ref:544021)   #7
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
as I said on monday I'll ask the guys who made the ad.
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Old 22 Mar 2003, 10:52 (Ref:544030)   #8
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I like Baz's idea most, I could do with a new car The amount involved is barely worth the hassle but it's the principle of it.

ss, if you could find out who was responsible that would be great. You might want to correct a slight factual inaccuracy as well - Steve Sutcliffe might have been announced as a 2002 Lexus BTCC but it never happened and it certainly wasn't a "full works drive".

Craig, Andy did contact me and I've sorted him out with a picture. That was for an unofficial SEAT website so probably not connected.
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Old 22 Mar 2003, 11:32 (Ref:544070)   #9
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Okay, that's as I recalled it - but I don't have the emails we exchanged anymore so doubts crept in..!
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Old 23 Mar 2003, 02:37 (Ref:544742)   #10
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally posted by redshoes
The amount involved is barely worth the hassle but it's the principle of it.
[/B]
precisely, everyone involved in the chain of producing and publishing any form of advertising is not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. cheers
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Old 2 Apr 2003, 12:18 (Ref:555827)   #11
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No, I am not connected to that article at all, the request was for an an unofficial site,,,
but guess what.... SEAT used the preview I wrote for the site (www.seatcupra.net) in the driver biography section of the centre spread without asking! You can see my paragraph about Spencer in the attachment redshoes posted. Personally I wasnt impressed.

Redshoes did allow me to use a photo of him in our preview (not the portrait shot) and I gave a credit as agreed which I am very grateful for.

Last edited by andy_b; 2 Apr 2003 at 12:24.
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Old 2 Apr 2003, 12:31 (Ref:555846)   #12
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re photo of him

Not reshoes, a pic of Spencer Marsh in action.
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Old 3 Apr 2003, 01:58 (Ref:556703)   #13
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I used to have a simple way of getting paid for unauthorised use of photos. I send an invoice to the advertiser (in your case SEAT) for double the amount I would normaly charge for such a photo. Then I would attach a nice polite letter to the invoice explaining that the copyright photo was used without permission and that the price is double the normal amount because of that. It usually worked and many times I got phone calls after that at 3 or 4 am telling me that Neg. number XYZ would be used in an advert the next day and please send an invoice.

Last edited by Hans.ca; 3 Apr 2003 at 02:00.
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Old 3 Apr 2003, 02:34 (Ref:556726)   #14
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Hans, the fellow that I work with has done that at least once. One I recall was a magazine shot of someone somewhat highly placed in a banking institution, that we found later in an internal publication (they had simply scanned the article). A matter of a fact invoice with your forementioned double amount, as well stating why, resulted in a no-fuss payment (partly, I suspect because of not wanting any bad publicity, given that the man in question wasn't just a teller or something).

Happy belated bday btw Hans.
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Old 3 Apr 2003, 07:29 (Ref:556888)   #15
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Definitely need to follow it up. I'm not good enough to have my stuff filched by the mags (), but I have had a photo nicked by another website and used without permission. I did follow that up and got a proper apology.

My most recent experience was an author in the states who contacted me out of the blue to use some of my pics for a books he was writing on Mario Andretti. A year on, I've been properly paid, the book is out and I have a copy signed personally for me by Andretti.
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