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Old 20 Aug 2017, 11:27 (Ref:3760569)   #126
GCCheddaris
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GCCheddaris should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Don't forget Castle Combe held the F3/ British GT package for many years , only losing it when their noise levels were reduced after a Court case.Whether that would be a problem I don't know , but depending on the level of the series , I could see the series headlining the July meeting organised by the BRSCC .
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Old 20 Aug 2017, 17:28 (Ref:3760598)   #127
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Would love to see the British GT package and TCR-UK race at Anglesey on the Coastal circuit. The best circuit to race on in the country and views to die for.

Yes, it's a pain to get there, but well worth it.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 08:35 (Ref:3760696)   #128
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On another note. I remain convinced there is a gap in the market for a 'big banger' type of saloon series.

I really think GT3 (or even GT4) type regs would work a treat (think BMW 3/5, Guilia, CClass,XF/XE, Mundano, Inuglya, etc etc) but maybe a bigger engined version of TCR?
This was called Superstars and it ran in Italy for many years, before falling apart under balance of performance arguments and management failing to cope.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 11:59 (Ref:3760739)   #129
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Superstars came to UK at least once as Autosport sent me to Donington Park to cover it as a photographer.

It was quite an interesting mix of big engined saloons, and I think deserved better.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 17:40 (Ref:3760782)   #130
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This was called Superstars and it ran in Italy for many years, before falling apart under balance of performance arguments and management failing to cope.
I think someone could do a far better job than that although to be fair it was pretty good for a couple of years.

I think it needs to be for cars with more production based profiles than any OTT wings and flared arches.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 17:43 (Ref:3760783)   #131
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https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...un-alone-2018/
So no grid limit and championship will be stand alone.
I don't think this no grid limit is good thing.
In TCR International even with 20 cars they have big crashes at the races start, and in TCR Germany with 40+ they have half race under safety car.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 17:50 (Ref:3760785)   #132
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https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...un-alone-2018/

TCR UK to run alone and will have no entry limits. Apparently there been "more than 50 serious enquiries from teams and drivers". No wonder they can't race with any other series. It could be a TCR festival each time they race.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 19:45 (Ref:3760803)   #133
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Hmm surprising, but I admire their bravery.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 21:30 (Ref:3760818)   #134
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https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...un-alone-2018/
So no grid limit and championship will be stand alone.
I don't think this no grid limit is good thing.
In TCR International even with 20 cars they have big crashes at the races start, and in TCR Germany with 40+ they have half race under safety car.
they could introduce pre-qualify like the good old F1 days ?


or they could adopt the old DTM format from around 1990 -1992

in that format the 16 fastest qualifiers were granted automatic main race entries

the rest of them had to do a "qualification race" before the actual race and only the top 18 finishers or so were allowed to take part in the main race

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Old 21 Aug 2017, 22:00 (Ref:3760821)   #135
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touring fan01 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtouring fan01 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtouring fan01 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
with standalone events they will get just a few hundred spectators, like club racing.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 23:31 (Ref:3760830)   #136
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they could introduce pre-qualify like the good old F1 days ?


or they could adopt the old DTM format from around 1990 -1992

in that format the 16 fastest qualifiers were granted automatic main race entries

the rest of them had to do a "qualification race" before the actual race and only the top 18 finishers or so were allowed to take part in the main race
This is ideal. For every series.
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 09:41 (Ref:3760908)   #137
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I guess that means we could have a few guest appearances in the championship
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 11:11 (Ref:3760930)   #138
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Rob877 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRob877 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wow, it looks like this is going to really snowball in to something potentially quite special. Would be great to see it tie in with the TOCA package at some point in the future (I'm guessing the reason being that at the moment, the TOCA support package is full).

I can see the success of this series having a big impact on stuff like Mini Challenge and Clios, which I think would be a shame as I've always liked a good competitive one make series. Perhaps they will have to readjust the type of driver they're aiming for (by slowing cars down and reducing budgets) just to make sure there is a large enough gap between themselves and TCR. Basically resulting in a tin top career ladder of:
Clios/Minis>TCR>BTCC
It seems like Clios and Minis are pretty sophisticated bits of kit, maybe it would be wise to allow them to regress a little as they aren't a million miles away from a BTCC car and squeezing TCR between the two IMO will be unsustainable for all series to co-exist easily together.

Anyway, I was dubious at first but this looks like it could be a great addition to the UK Motorsport scene, hopefully without denting the BTCC too much (which I don't think it will).
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 19:10 (Ref:3761000)   #139
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with standalone events they will get just a few hundred spectators, like club racing.
So it won't be any different than if it supported British GT then.

It's good to see that serious teams are interested in the championship, hopefully the standard of driver will match.
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 19:22 (Ref:3761003)   #140
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If it's using a business model similar to Creventic, where the drivers are the main focus as an income, rather than fans, then having 20 spectators won't matter.

I'll happily nip down to Knockhill and have my own event.
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 21:08 (Ref:3761019)   #141
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Bcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So from those '50' serious enquiries how many does anyone reckon will hit?

Taking into account it being its first year, with some making a final call to wait and see how it goes, I'd say a 25 car grid could be pretty possible.

I'd be happy with anything above 22.

I know TCR Germany gets a lot of safety car action due to the mega grids, but it really is a great spectacle


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Old 22 Aug 2017, 22:33 (Ref:3761033)   #142
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The Toca 32 car limit is due to that being the smallest maximum grid for the circuits they attend. Knockhilll and I think one other have a max of 32.

Does that split heat format as mentioned in the article mean a ball draw heat 1 or 2 and no qualifying with top half of each into A final bottom half into B final.

Or will they qualify (possibly in more than one group) with odds and evens from the overall timing screen going to Heats 1 or 2, with the finals as above?

If it's the latter, they would be taking up a fair chunk of a single day meeting. It's little wonder they would be running standalone, I can't see many other series allowing that much track time. Of course inviting locally based supports would help to attract series following spectators whilst building their own fanbase.

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Old 23 Aug 2017, 06:04 (Ref:3761078)   #143
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Bramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Just the fact that it'll be a British touring car championship without the constant bickering about FWD vs. RWD makes it an exiting prospect already
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 07:15 (Ref:3761090)   #144
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Anyway, I was dubious at first but this looks like it could be a great addition to the UK Motorsport scene, hopefully without denting the BTCC too much (which I don't think it will).
I guess the risk to denting the BTCC comes from whether BTCC teams will move to TCR or enter alongside their current commitments.

Getting TCR in the minds of the general public will be the point where BTCC is at threat, and this could happen if people have 'names' to follow.

If Team Dynamics and WSR are serious about their concerns over NGTC BoP, adopting TCR could see the likes of Shedden, Turkington and Jordan (all former BTCC champions) considering a move.
If that were to happen, then overnight the TCR package would become a serious threat to BTCC.
Motorbase are also struggling for results in BTCC, and have expressed an interest in TCR. There are already TCR Ford (and Hondas) so the switch could be relatively easy.


I don't think it is far from feasible (given talk already being made) to see the following in TCR within 3 yrs:

WSR BMW - Turkington and Jordan
TD Honda - Shedden and Simpson
Motorbase Ford - Jackson and Butcher
888 Subaru (WRX) - Sutton and Taylor-Smith
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:11 (Ref:3761103)   #145
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so those teams would walk away from their successful campaigns in by far the biggest series in the UK with massive spectators and TV and profile to one that doesnt have any of that, and doesn't allow their manufacturer support or even allow RWD? lol.

oh and teams are constantly complaining in TCR about balance of performance issues!

i dont think youve thought this through very well.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:21 (Ref:3761105)   #146
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so those teams would walk away from their successful campaigns in by far the biggest series in the UK with massive spectators and TV and profile to one that doesnt have any of that, and doesn't allow their manufacturer support or even allow RWD? lol.

oh and teams are constantly complaining in TCR about balance of performance issues!

i dont think youve thought this through very well.
But if they have 50 possible entries, then it suggests there is interest despite the problems you raised.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:30 (Ref:3761110)   #147
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What I imagine is most likely is BTCC teams playing it safe by entering TCR while staying in BTCC.

Yeh it might cost a little more but TCR budgets are reasonable and they could even enter several cars with a mix of paying Am's, and new talent to test for their BTCC future seats.

With feet in both BTCC and TCR UK, teams can let the racing determine the success of either.

The way I see it there's 3 possible outcomes:

1- TCR struggles to gain momentum and BTCC stays dominant (seems less likely with the '50 interested parties' statement but will count on them til they're on the grid)

2- TCR establishes itself well as a viable option between Mini/VW Cups and BTCC. BTCC remains dominant

3- TCR establishes itself as a cheaper alternative to BTCC, and with lower budgets eventually brings more runners over to TCR, and TCR UK becomes more dominant over time.


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Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:30 (Ref:3761111)   #148
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But if they have 50 possible entries, then it suggests there is interest despite the problems you raised.
the amount of car numbers doesn't actually mean anything. there are all sorts of series in the UK that have huge grids and close racing but that doesn't make them massively popular with the public or manufacturers or major sponsors.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:32 (Ref:3761112)   #149
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the amount of car numbers doesn't actually mean anything. there are all sorts of series in the UK that have huge grids and close racing but that doesn't make them massively popular with the public or manufacturers or major sponsors.


The beauty in my opinion of TCR is that it's not about the manufacturers. They just make and sell the cars, beyond that it's all about the teams.

And arguing BOP makes it a lesser series isn't worth much when BTCC do the same thing but with ballast.


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Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:43 (Ref:3761120)   #150
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so those teams would walk away from their successful campaigns in by far the biggest series in the UK with massive spectators and TV and profile to one that doesnt have any of that, and doesn't allow their manufacturer support or even allow RWD? lol.

oh and teams are constantly complaining in TCR about balance of performance issues!

i dont think youve thought this through very well.
888 are no longer the BTCC powerhouse of the past,
Motorbase are already looking at TCR, and have struggled to make a full BTCC season previously,
WSR haven't always been BTCC only.

A number of TCR cars are already Manufacturer backed and developed.
The next 1-series is FWD, and there is already a Subaru WRX TCR car.

The reasons for some of the top teams to not leave BTCC only have limited influence in the long term.

Assuming that BTCC teams won't leave is the threat to BTCC.
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