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25 Mar 2003, 13:08 (Ref:547437) | #1 | ||
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Nordic SpecialSaloons
Jesper, do you recognize this one. I think it might have been someone from Sweden. The photo is taken '97 or '98 at Alastaro during a Nordic Championship event.
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25 Mar 2003, 14:56 (Ref:547568) | #2 | ||
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Hi Don Vito
It looks like Swede Jimmy Larsson and his GTD 40 (a Ford GT40 replica). I have found another picture of the car in 2000 on the Swedish GT-series page: http://www.gtr.se/pictureArchive.asp?groupID=11. Looks nice in red. Jesper OH |
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26 Mar 2003, 00:50 (Ref:548212) | #3 | ||
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To Don Vito and Zep
Both of you have results from the Kemora 500 races, and here's a top-10 of the 1988 edition (from Swedish Bilsport) for you (and everybody else interested): 1. Bächi/Wiik, BMW M1 (SSC), 184 laps 2. Peggen/Urpiala, BMW M3 (A), 179 laps 3. Haapala/Järvi, BMW 635 (A), 175 laps 4. Nodes/Sarlin/Jatala, Ford Sierra (A), 171 laps 5. Emilsson/Emilsson/Stenlund, Volvo 240 (A), 166 laps 6. Saarikivi/Gustavsson/Lähteenmäki, Volvo 240 (A), 165 laps 7. Bornebusch/Österholm/Lindgren, Rover Vitesse (A), 164 laps 8. Thenander/Ohlsson/Simonsen, Volvo 240 (A), 164 laps 9. Salmenautio/Kemppainen/Törhönen, Volvo 240 (A), 163 laps 10. Öberg/Tiholt, Ford Escort (SSC), 155 laps This race was shown on Eurosport. From a more international aspect it's interesting to note that the front row of the grid was occupied by the Roush Racing Mercur Mercury (Ford Sierra) XR4Ti of Scott Pruett/Robert Lappalainen and Franz Konrad/Walter Mertes in a Porsche 935 K2 DP! Of other starters I can remember/deduct from the pictures in the race report there was a Second DP 935 driven by former Rallycrosser Seppo Niitymäki/?, the ex-Lappalainen Camaro of Juhani Pakari/Jari Koiranen, the Camaro of Olli Virtanen/?, German Hans Christian Jürgensen and his group B BMW M1 (just about the most regular Super Saloon driver in Denmark during the 1980's!), Helge Snabb and his Manta M88, a Russian crew driving a Lada Samara (build for the still born Group S rally catagory), a Simca 1000 (ex-Per Stureson?) and a lot of Volvos. In the race report it says that race winner Jürg Bächi always was the brides maid, and because of that had decided to sell his car even before event. Now I have a question for you. When was Super Saloon introduced in Finland? The Danish version of the origins of the class, is that up untill 1982 this type of cars existed at least in Denmark and Sweden, but the details varied. Thus a unifying Super Saloon was created for 1982 - the most liberal interpretations of the Special Saloon and FIA Group 5 regulations in one. Looking back, It was mainly Swedes and Danes that competed in the early years (this is from somewhat faint memories), but recently I found this page: http://members.lycos.co.uk/ahvenisto/index2_2.htm and it made me question when Super Saloon did start in Finland. There's an entry list for the September races in 1983 (including Nils-Gustav Wiik and the 320 Turbo). But as far as I can figure out it says Group 5 (and B?) 0-2000cc? No Super Saloon but Keke Rosberg (defending F1 world champion at the time) in a Lancia Beta Monte Carlo Turbo and Stefan Johansson in a Fiat Ritmo (Strada) Abarth - WOW! From a video clip, on the same page, Super Saloon was definitely on the map in Finland by 1984 - but so was the late Henri Toivonen and a factory-Porsche 956 Group C car (...). Having seen this clip, it makes some sence why 3 Group C2 cars appeared in the 1985 Nordic SSC counter on the Jyllands Ringen! Jesper OH |
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26 Mar 2003, 18:01 (Ref:548986) | #4 | ||
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I'm not sure about the year, but I could imagine the name Special Saloon was introduced 1985. Though the majority of the cars were either old group 5 cars or somewhat modified old CamaroCup racers.
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27 Mar 2003, 13:24 (Ref:549942) | #5 | ||
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1985 would coincide nicely with the Blaupunkt sponsored Nordic series.
I have just found an old article, about Jens Nykjær, from June 1984. It says that he have just won the Nordic Special Saloon Car series, held at Anderstorp, in the company of 14 Swedes, 3 Finns and Nykjær as the sole Dane. So at least some Finns were racing in SSC by 1984, but then again, I would think a Group 5 car could easily be converted to SSC spec. Jesper O. Hansen |
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27 Mar 2003, 21:49 (Ref:550474) | #6 | ||
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I would say that there was Special Saloon at Finland in 1984 or even before (1984 might be the first year). What I understand, SS was just a "bonus" at first. So N-G Wiik raced in Gr.5 & SS, and Bob Lappalainen in Camaro Cup & SS... In Kemora 500 procure 1987, SS category was explained as Gr.5 & B compined. Top of 80's SS consisted mainly of ex-group 5 and IMSA cars.
I would like to know something about Jürg Bächi's Opel Manta M88. Was Bächi just a team owner, sponsor and driver, or did he also do development work for this Manta which later has been driven by so many drivers. - Helge Snabb was the one that perhaps did the most of that cars victories. |
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27 Mar 2003, 21:55 (Ref:550487) | #7 | ||
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I'm not sure if there was many other ex-Group 5 racers than those two BMWs which took part to SpecialSaloons. Here are results from Kemora Race '85. Its the first ocasion I've found the SpecialSaloon class mentioned. The smaller class was still called group5.
1. N-G Wiik BMW 320 Turbo 12.33,36/15 laps 2. Robert Lappalainen Chevy Camaro 12.37,37 3. Helge Snabb Opel Manta M88 12.38,49 4. P.Korkeakoski Ford Escort Mk.2 13.06,54 5. Onni Kreivi Ford Capri 13.20,23 6. Leo Kinnunen Saab 99 Turbo 14 laps 7. Osmo Määttälä Volvo 240 Turbo 13 laps All others were marked to represent a finnish motorsport club, but Onni Kreivi was marked to be a swede... Somewhat strange, but at the time foreign competitors could be accepted the join the start if there was still room in the grid. Though they were racing as outsiders with no points given. |
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27 Mar 2003, 22:31 (Ref:550522) | #8 | ||
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Thanks for the info Don Vito. Interesting to read that result. Especially that Onni Kreivi was driving a Capri. At the Jyllands Ringen in August 1985, there was a pale green Mk.I Capri driven by ?. The driver was a late entry, and thus not mentioned in the programme, but from the PA system it did sound like Onni Kreivi.
6th for Leo Kinnunen. Is this the sports car racer of 1970's fame? I have seen that some of those small Group 5's are still being raced in Historic racing in Finland today. Jesper O. Hansen |
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27 Mar 2003, 22:43 (Ref:550532) | #9 | ||
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Yes.The same Leo Kinnunen. He had a very strange looking Saab-project, but for some reason it never became anything worth of mentioning. That particular race might have been one of the rare events he really finished a race.
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27 Mar 2003, 23:03 (Ref:550549) | #10 | ||
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Wow! The Kinnunen Saab story sounds like an interesting story. I think I have heard questions in some of these forums, about what happened to Kinnunen after his international career was over. I don't remember to have heard this one before.
I guess that FWD cars in general is somewhat handicapped in this type of racing. In Denmark the most powerfull FWD cars were Volkswagen Golfs and Sciroccos in 2 litre form. Norwegian Jarl Nilsen is racing a Volvo 850 converted to RWD, powered by a Chevrolet V8. I guess the regulations has been loosened up regarding transmission. Jesper O. Hansen Last edited by Jesper OH; 27 Mar 2003 at 23:04. |
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28 Mar 2003, 09:40 (Ref:550836) | #11 | ||
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Hi Don Vito
I have just found the 1985 Jyllands Ringen race I referred to earlier. Onni Krevi was a late entry and I have him as #79 Onni Kreivin, Sweden, Capri, 18th on the grid/retired in the race. 6 "official" Finns were entered for the race (5 Swedes): #3 Nils-Gustav Wiik, BMW 320 Turbo #4 Helge Snabb, Opel Manta #5 Pekka Korkiakoski, Ford Escort Turbo #7 Robert Lappalainen, Chevrolet Camaro #29 Vierinaa Saku, Fontana BMW #35 Jouko Kallio, Chevrolet Camaro The previous year a few more Swedes were entered, but no Finns. Jesper OH |
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28 Mar 2003, 11:41 (Ref:550945) | #12 | ||
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Once again I have ask for photos. Korkeakoski's Escort and Vierimaa's (ex-Urpiala) BMW are still missing from the site.
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28 Mar 2003, 12:24 (Ref:550995) | #13 | ||
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Sorry, but I only did take pictures in the 1989-1995 periode. So I don't have any of either car, but I do have of some of the other cars mentioned on your site, like Seppo Tuunanen and his Renault 5 and Yrjo Aaltos Fiat X1/9. Please let me know your e-mail adress, and I'll send them to you (I don't have the means of doing it othervise).
Beware that it will probably not be today, since I'm a little busy right now. Regards Jesper O. Hansen |
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28 Mar 2003, 12:47 (Ref:551011) | #14 | ||
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I have some kind of feeling that Kreivi was more than once "late entry" .
It would be nice to know about his M1's engine. Some times it was printed as M1 Turbo. I remember that once they had kind of BMW Motorsport "parade" between the race starts in Kemora. Wiik in 320, Kreivi with M1 and Bächi with Sauber M1? It could be the very same race that I have photos, because I can just remember (I was about 8-9 years old..) that both of M1 were almost all white. Other had Turtle Wax as sponsor. At the time 320 Turbo seemed to very old tech. Funny how it took to till 88-89 to Bächi get his M1 suited to Kemora and Nicke seemed to be almost every time faster with 320.. Of course Nicke had real advantage as Kemora is his home circuit. There was once rumours that Kreivi's garage was burn (86-88) and all the equipment with (M1 also) it. |
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28 Mar 2003, 12:55 (Ref:551021) | #15 | ||
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And if anyone has pictures of Bächi's black Manta M88, I'm sure Don Vito would be glad to have copies. Based on the only one picture of what I've seen, I would say that it would be one of the most pretties SS cars in Nordic countries.
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28 Mar 2003, 15:16 (Ref:551170) | #16 | |||
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Quote:
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22 Sep 2012, 13:05 (Ref:3139957) | #17 | |
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I wondered if Wiik's BMW he raced in 1981 was already the Group 5 320i Turbo he campaigned during the 1980s and found this discussion. Over the past few weeks I tried to put together all available SS results and here are most of them:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cham...%20Saloon.html http://www.racingsportscars.com/trac...ve/Kemora.html http://www.racingsportscars.com/trac...Ahvenisto.html http://www.racingsportscars.com/trac...rtukainen.html The term Special Saloon seems to be first used in 1983 along with terms like Kemora Specials and it widely and officially replaced former Group 5 2000 cc, sometimes listed as Group 5 over 1300 cc in 1985. By far most interesting field of cars I found during that period was Ahveniston "Kv. Blaupunkt Nordic Special Saloon Cup" in July 1984 when a factory Porsche 956 entered the race and completely dominated both heats. Something hidden from me for more than 25 years :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHNUbcVtETU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpLs...feature=relmfu It seems that at some point even the Group C closed cars were classified as Special Saloon, unfortunately not too many of them were in Scandinavia. One such, Nakjaer, raced with a BMW M1 body since 1986 for several years. More photos or results would be appreciated. |
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16 Aug 2018, 16:56 (Ref:3844050) | #18 | ||
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Something new to a very old topic....
I don't think group C cars were actually accepted to Special Saloon racing, but that particular race in July 1994 was a special one-off occasion. First of all it was Henri Toivonen and the event was also 10 years jubilee for the organizer (TamUA). Never before or after a genuine group C car was seen anywhere in Finnish tracks. Henri's winning marginal was "only" 14 seconds to Jens Nykjaer's Porsche 935. But I guess he did not push too hard and the in the interview he told that the gear ratios were the same team had used in LeMans tests. Ahvenisto circuit is as far from LeMans and Mulsane straight as is anyhow can be. With better ratios and 100% effort the gap could have been much bigger. All guys (and cars) in the TOP-5 were known to be quite fast. Nykjaer's 935 K3 was a world class car in its own category and Norlander's Camaro was only 1 second slower. Bächi and Linden also had fast cars. And despite the speed of Henri, there were 12 cars at the same lap when the chequered flag was shown. Later years it did not happen when Kuismanen had his IMSA Audi at the track. |
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17 Aug 2018, 01:53 (Ref:3844131) | #19 | ||
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Was this 1984 or 1994?
Quite significant in relation to the late Henri? |
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17 Aug 2018, 19:36 (Ref:3844344) | #20 | |
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I'm assuming it's a typo for 1984- Henri's rally programme that year was a mixture of a part-time Lancia seat, and a number of events in a Rothmans-sponsored Porsche 911SCRS, run by Dave Richards. I'm guessing his group C car for the race in Finland was either a factory/Rothmans Porsche, or maybe Richard Lloyd's Canon 956- IIRC Henri had a couple of runs in that in 1983/4
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22 Aug 2018, 10:20 (Ref:3845349) | #21 | |||
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Quote:
In 1983 Henri drove two races with Canon Racing 956 in October. And was a backup driver in Kyalami in December for Team Gunston. His bro Harri drove much more the racecars in early 1990s |
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