Brabham BT38

[mak1957]

Originally Posted by kickstart

So sounds clear to me that you have an F2 or F/Atlantic tub and from what I know (I am not an expert) they are identical so you could build it up as either.
As the chassis tag is missing then you will have to put on your dearstalker hat to work out what car it was originally.

The only fly in the ointment is that I suspect that the costs of all the parts (if you bought new) would be almost certainly more than the car would be worth - unless you have a FT gearbox/F2/Atlantic engine lying around.

There was a chap in Italy (he spoke to us at the Superprix) with about 1 1/2 BT38s for sale - one damaged chassis, one undamaged and lots of uprights, wishbones etc etc - don't have any contact details but I seem to remember he did advertise the lot of RCD a few years ago - might be worth speaking to RCD if they could put you in contact - I think he wanted £15k - £20k ish for the lot (no engine or gearbox)

Love to know what your plans for the chassis are

Hello,
Do you remember any details about the two chassis and parts. Perhaps you noted the chassis numbers down. I recently bought two chassis from Europe and I am trying to identify the chassis number of one of them as it has no tags. Any information can be helpful.
Thank you,


Maurice

[kickstart]

Maurice,

I don't mind trying to help, but please bear in mind this is supposed to be a thread about the chassis history of BT38 cars, so it would be helpful for us to know what cars you have got (one has got a chassis plate) and who you got them, what you know about them and what your plans are, so that hopefully we can build up a comprehensive history.

best wishes

Kickstart

[mak1957]

Hello Kickstart,
Thank you for getting back with me re the BT38 chassis.

I bought these two cars from a dealer in Europe. One of the cars has the tag number BT38-23 and I traced it to Peter Westbury/Felday Engineering. The second car that I am trying to identify has no chassis number but has been confirmed by an expert to be an F2. I have the feeling that these are the cars the Italian chap mentioned in this forum was offering.

My plan is to complete the Felday car and race it in Europe. Given that it comes with FIA papers, I hope to be able to do Monaco historics 2018 and now working towards that end. As for the second tub and since it is in fairly good condition, I would like to see it go to a real enthusiast that will bring it back to the track.

Incidentally, should any of the readers here have any parts for these cars, please offer them to me. That can make the restoration of the cars go much faster.
All the best,


Maurice

[kickstart]

From the information I have got about BT38's I have pasted the bits that relate to your chassis.

I have kept the details of the original Race Cars Direct advert and some info that I have dug up about your chassis - I suspect that from memory the spare chassis is the damaged period chassis and hence in reality both are chassis 23 - however that makes no difference for race/fia purposes and you can build up one and sell the other as you wish.

It might be worth contacting the original owner if you have not got all the parts listed below as he may still have the period correct gearbox etc.

I don't know where you are based, but I suspect the UK is going to be the best place to buy bits - I know Simon Hadfield has got all the bodywork but once you work out what bits you need it might be worth speaking to Damon at Cheshire Classic cars as one of his customers has a BT38 for sale and its possible they might have some spares for sale ?

Otherwise I would think an advert on RCD might be a good idea

My car was re-built from the tub upwards by Nick Edgington at Edgington Racing in the UK and he may be able to source some parts or rebuild the car for you.

Good luck and please tell us your progress

Seller: ging12
Marcel Spiess
City: 4447 Kaenerkinden
Country: Switzerland
Phone: 0041622992606
Currency: GBP
Trade or Private: Private Seller
Price: 14,000.00
Date Added: January 22, 2014
Link to your website:
Ad Views: 59
Number of times found from searches: 133
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Description:
Brabham BT 38 chassis No.23
ex Peter Westbury/Felday Engineering ,for sale in parts
without engine and gearbox.
2 tubes,1 minor damaged easy repair,includes also rear chassis frame,complet body,complet
suspension with brake calibers and discs,steering rack,dashboard,wheels,chassis
plate on dashboard,older FIA papers
almost everthing to build the car.
Periodic correct Hewland FT200 gearbox is for additional price also
available.

Re the Peter Westbury (Felday, IIRC) car, this was advertised in Autosport 22/11/73 p57 as follows: 'Peter Westbury's 1972 Brabham BT38, which has remained unused since 1972, is now offered for sale as a rolling chassis without gearbox, making it an ideal basis for a successful hillclimb or Atlantic car. Spare (slightly damaged) tub and some wheels, tyres, etc available if required'.

Richard Scott & Peter Westbury– Uniacke & then First racing– chassis 23 (crashed)

[kickstart]

Oh sorry forgot to mention, you might be able to dig up some period photos of the car - probably best person would be Ted Walker at Ferret Photographic - he has certainly got quite a few 1972 era photos of Brabham BT38s

[mak1957]

Kickstart,
You truly live up to your name!

This information you provided will surely get things going as for my BT38 project.

I am based in CA, USA and will reach out to the contacts you suggested to make things happen. I am confident they will help.

Still a bit puzzled by the missing chassis number of the second car. If Westbury bought a spare (used) chassis from UNIACKE then we clearly know that chassis number. Should there be an info. in your archive about it that would greatly help. I suspect Westbury bought it slightly damaged just in case he needed one and it sat as his car chassis 23 was not used after 1972.

Let me know if this thread makes sense to you.
My best,


Maurice

[phdm]

Maurice,

Before ending up in Switzerland, BT38-23 used to be in France, having at some point come from the UK, as the FIA papers issued in 1992 by the RAC MSA seem to indicate.
By then, it was complete with a Racing Services engine and gearbox.
I believe Marcel Spiess was selling the car on behalf of Marchel Schaub who owned the car.
I suspect the missing parts were used for the restoration of BT38-21 that, I think, Marcel Schaub also owned, but I have no evidence of that.
This car was also for sale by Lutziger.
http://www.lutziger-classiccars.ch/b...skaZJdtuQ.aspx

[mak1957]

Hi,
You guys are awesome!

The information about BT38-23 is getting clearer by the day.

What I need help with the second chassis with no tags on it. That is the puzzle!
Thank you all,


Maurice

[Ron Gta]

Hello everybody.
I'm a new member here.
I just bought BT38c 18 with an Alfa Romeo 2 litre engine.
For the moment I don't know much about the history of this F3 car.
Maybe someone can help me...
Kind regards,
ron

[Ron Gta]

In 2 weeks I will post some pics.

[Bryan Miller]

MAK 1957 , regarding your post 153 , unless rules have changed Monaco doesn't
run F2 cars .
Your unplated tub could well be just that a spare tub purchased in 1972 maybe used originally , damaged and newer tub used instead and chassis plate swapped across , In period all well funded teams carried lots of spares to cover all sorts of dramas in practice etc. March , Chevron etc. carried spare cars and rented them out let alone tubs to be built up in a moments notice.

I was always amazed the BT38-23 HVIF papers allowed the end plates and Gurney's on that car when they were not period use , still were not in use in 1973 on BT40s.

Hello Phillipe.

[mak1957]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

MAK 1957 , regarding your post 153 , unless rules have changed Monaco doesn't
run F2 cars .
Your unplated tub could well be just that a spare tub purchased in 1972 maybe used originally , damaged and newer tub used instead and chassis plate swapped across , In period all well funded teams carried lots of spares to cover all sorts of dramas in practice etc. March , Chevron etc. carried spare cars and rented them out let alone tubs to be built up in a moments notice.

I was always amazed the BT38-23 HVIF papers allowed the end plates and Gurney's on that car when they were not period use , still were not in use in 1973 on BT40s.

Hello Phillipe.

Hello Bryan,
That could well be the case. I would love to see a photo of the BT38 sponsored by UNIACKE Chemicals in case someone has one.

You are correct in that Monaco does not allow F2 post 1961, hopefully things will change soon.

Thanks again for all your kind help.

[phdm]

Originally Posted by Ron Gta

In 2 weeks I will post some pics.

To the best of my knowledge, BT38C 18 used to be the yellow car owned by Philippe Sauge in Switzerland. It was fitted with a wrong MAE engine. I believe he sold the car a few months ago back to its previous owner, Charles Croset.

[Ron Gta]

Originally Posted by phdm

To the best of my knowledge, BT38C 18 used to be the yellow car owned by Philippe Sauge in Switzerland. It was fitted with a wrong MAE engine. I believe he sold the car a few months ago back to its previous owner, Charles Croset.

Next friday I will meet Battel Bruno, the first owner of the car.
He still lives in Udine, Italy.

[Ron Gta]

With Bruno Battel

Gianni Reggiani, "Il mago" di Modena

[Ron Gta]

[Ron Gta]

Attachment 49357 Verzegnis hillclimb in 1974

[phdm]

Congrats Ron GTA.
Do you have a photo of the chassis plate ?
What is the AM number ?

[Ron Gta]

The number on the rear frame is 72 49.

With the help of Chris Townsend I already know it's the McCully-Magee car.

I'm still searching for more info and pictures.

[Ron Gta]

Nobody?

[bobdar]

Steve Petersen passed away this past summer and I am helping wife Lori sell the Brabham BT-38-16 F2 car. https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...abham-bt-38-f2

[raltroundup]

Mr. Willis registered BT38-11 in the Brabham Register in 2004 as
-x Rondel Racing, perhaps x-Reuttemann.

[Wagg]

Originally Posted by IHB33

Just started reading this thread - good to see the old 38 is still remembered.

I worked for Graham Hill in 1972 - his BT38 was run by KAYDON Racing - Dave Kaylor and Peter Donnelly - ( both ex-Brabham) out of an old stables in Cobham, Surrey and then out of Mo Gomm's workshops in Old Woking - alongside Tom Belso's BT38, run by Brian Lewis under the Team Viking banner. and various other occasional visitors, inc Wilson Fittipaldi's BT38, ( run by Richard Divilla ) and Dave Brodie's "Run Baby Run" Escort .

Delivery of the BT38 was delayed and Graham borrowed his 1971 car ( BT36 - Rondel Racing) back from Chris Meek - Tate of Leeds - for the Thruxton Easter meeting which he won. That car was in Tate of Leeds colours - the BT38 ran as Jagermeister all year. ( and the ornate script logos were hand-painted - the circular ones - of a Stags head - were decals)

The first BT38 chassis he had was damaged in a startline accident at Crystal Palace - and the car was rebuilt around a new tub - the old tub was repaired and returned to the team, I think after we returned from Imola. It was not used again during the season and I left before the car was sold so I don't know what happened to it.

He won the Monza lottery in the rebuilt car and just after that was when I joined the team. It is possible the new chassis was the one without a plate as it was a spare purchased ( although knowing GH, probably on extended loan!) from the Brabham factory in Addlestone.
As we only had the one car we did not need to be "flexible" with chassis numbers for Customs Carnet purposes - so no "velcro" chassis plate required.

The car ran in 1972 with 2 engines a Felday unit - which was I believe almost 2 litres and a Racing Services ( Ken Britten, then based in Twickenham) unit - around 1800 cc. The RS engine was less powerful but more reliable, the Felday was prone to spewing oil out everywhere ( ask John Surtees @ Imola - he finished the race with most of GH's oil in his face!).

At the end of 1972 the car was being prepared to go to South America for the end of season Temporada Series - and hopefully be sold there - but the Shadow F1 project intervened and the plans were cancelled.

This was last F2 car Graham Hill drove I think and the only Monocoque.

I would like to know where the car went - I have seen comments that it might have ended up as a Can-Am car ?.

Ian.

Hi Could you give me a call ref : this car
Jon Waggitt 07710022112

[Andres S]

Hola amigos!mucho gusto! Soy de Argentina y pertenezco a un museo de automovilismo! Les comento que tenemos 3 chasis que teóricamente son bt38 pero no tienen placa de numeración. Deseamos saber si figura el nro en otra parte del chasis? Muchas gracias Saludos!

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Andres S

Hola amigos!mucho gusto! Soy de Argentina y pertenezco a un museo de automovilismo! Les comento que tenemos 3 chasis que teóricamente son bt38 pero no tienen placa de numeración. Deseamos saber si figura el nro en otra parte del chasis? Muchas gracias Saludos!

Hello friends, nice to meet you! I am from Argentina and I belong to a motoring museum! I tell you that we have 3 chassis that theoretically are bt38 but do not have a number plate. We want to know if the number appears in another part of the chassis? Thank you very much Regards!

¿Cómo se llama el museo del automóvil?