[WEC] Ginetta LMP1

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I don't necessarily disagree with that (being a prototype kind of guy myself), however the entry does need to be credible. It's a bit like saying if GT was the highest class that JLOC should get an entry for a Lambo, just because it's in that class.... Not saying that Ginetta are that bad, but as yet, they've not really proved any worth at all....

Well TBH JLOC did sort of "earn" most of it's invites, yes they were utter trash in 07 and 09 but in 06 they managed 283 laps and the 2010 entry was okay + earned through winning Asian LMS the previous year. Plus in SGT they were actually respectable and back in the day that championship along with FIA GT sort of mattered to the ACO entry process

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by gert

Frankly, if they don't do any other race, I am not sure I even *want* to see them at Le Mans. IMO, if they just don't turn up anywhere, their place on the Le Mans entry list should go to a team that does deserve it.
It would be a farce to turn down a team that raced all year long in favour of Ginetta.

I'd rather see a Racing Engineering LMP2 car than Ginetta at Le Mans.

I can't disagree with that sentiment, but I would still prefer (personally/selfishly) to see Ginetta there. A HUGE amount of money has been invested in the programme, the entries are fully paid up, and actually, on the one occasion the car has raced, it did ok, despite the lack of testing and without optimum aero (or power). From memory, wasn't the #5 the only non-Rebellion privateer P1 to be classified (at Le Mans)?

I totally get the negativity towards the programme, but for me, I'm on the other side of the fence, I want to see what this car is capable of. My gut feeling is that it is fundamentally a better car than the BR1, and that had things turned out differently, it would now be Rebellion's main privateer adversary. Maybe we'll find that out, and maybe we won't...

[Deleted]

Even though everyone had already given up on it and thought it was wasted chassis, the Ginetta LMP3 was actually pretty good against the other manufacturers on proper hands. It almost even took pole position at Road to Le Mans couple of years ago.

So I think with time this could still come solid as well... however, if these cars are foolishly rendered obsolete by 2020 already (or possibly 2021) to make room for LMGTP, would people really want to invest in it when it's already getting 'late'...

I still blame Ginetta on not running the car at least themselves somewhere. If you don't show it, you also won't be able to sell it. Of course, were they allowed to run it in ELMS it would be easier for their "limited capabilities", but you know...

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

I can't disagree with that sentiment, but I would still prefer (personally/selfishly) to see Ginetta there. A HUGE amount of money has been invested in the programme, the entries are fully paid up, and actually, on the one occasion the car has raced, it did ok, despite the lack of testing and without optimum aero (or power). From memory, wasn't the #5 the only non-Rebellion privateer P1 to be classified (at Le Mans)?

I totally get the negativity towards the programme, but for me, I'm on the other side of the fence, I want to see what this car is capable of. My gut feeling is that it is fundamentally a better car than the BR1, and that had things turned out differently, it would now be Rebellion's main privateer adversary. Maybe we'll find that out, and maybe we won't...

I fall into the disillusioned camp now with this. However I would love to see them back out there, partly for the reasons you say and partly for the sake of the team and company.

My concern if they don’t enter other races is that they won’t be race ready at Le Mans and by then everyone else will have a year under their belt.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Adam43

...partly for the reasons you say and partly for the sake of the team and company.

For sure, in no way is this simply about money, there are many with a deep emotional connection with this car, not least LT himself.

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

I can't disagree with that sentiment, but I would still prefer (personally/selfishly) to see Ginetta there. A HUGE amount of money has been invested in the programme, the entries are fully paid up, and actually, on the one occasion the car has raced, it did ok, despite the lack of testing and without optimum aero (or power). From memory, wasn't the #5 the only non-Rebellion privateer P1 to be classified (at Le Mans)?

I totally get the negativity towards the programme, but for me, I'm on the other side of the fence, I want to see what this car is capable of. My gut feeling is that it is fundamentally a better car than the BR1, and that had things turned out differently, it would now be Rebellion's main privateer adversary. Maybe we'll find that out, and maybe we won't...

I agree 100% with that statement. Ginetta are local to me so I want to see them do well.

[Akrapovic]

Arguably, spending more money to continue the car could be worse. Are they going to sell any of these? Not likely. Are they going to break even? Not likely. Why sink more money into it? Is that going to be good for Ginetta?

I can't remember who said it, but I once heard something that basically said that reality is a branching stream of probabilities, and by putting effort into things you increase the probability of success and decrease the possibility of failure. However, sometimes, no matter how hard you work, failure is sometimes the only possible outcome. Once you get to that point, you should cancel the project immediately to cut future losses. Unless you're a government project, then you'll continue on for at least another 5 years before cancellation.

[Deleted]

If they bail out, perhaps ACO also kills off the fresh LMP3 cartel deal with them. Maybe there are stipulations for that

Anyway they could still take their time nice and steady if there was guarantee that these cars are still eligible beyond LM 2020

But there isn't

[templer]

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ewa...in-de-semaine/

The technical director of Ginetta will leave the manufacturer this weekend. I think this marks the final end for the Ginetta LMP1 project.
Really sad as the car was the most promising design of all privateers but could never show it

[CTD]

If it is truly done from Ginetta side (let us wait and see what happens), there is still the possibility of the car or at least the monocoque being bought and utilised elsewhere. This is something we have seen endless of times in Sportscar racing, most successful being the Reynard/DBA/Zytek.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by CTD

If it is truly done from Ginetta side (let us wait and see what happens), there is still the possibility of the car or at least the monocoque being bought and utilised elsewhere. This is something we have seen endless of times in Sportscar racing, most successful being the Reynard/DBA/Zytek.

That is a good thought, who else could buy the IP and build themselves a car? There's always that Ferrari in LMP1 like rumor of Hyundai/Kia being interested in sportscars. Course that's usually a DPi thing over full LMP1. SGR seems to be intent on building their own Panoz style project so I'd say they are out. Any open wheel feeder teams with DEEP pockets from a not F1 talent driver out there? Or Russian oil/gem/criminal masterminds wanting to take on BR and clean some cash?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

That is a good thought, who else could buy the IP and build themselves a car? There's always that Ferrari in LMP1 like rumor of Hyundai/Kia being interested in sportscars. Course that's usually a DPi thing over full LMP1. SGR seems to be intent on building their own Panoz style project so I'd say they are out. Any open wheel feeder teams with DEEP pockets from a not F1 talent driver out there? Or Russian oil/gem/criminal masterminds wanting to take on BR and clean some cash?

Remember the Monocoque is good for both the future Hyper-car (perhaps) and DPi .

[Tique]

Originally Posted by CTD

Remember the Monocoque is good for both the future Hyper-car (perhaps) and DPi .

I thought that only Dallara, Onroak, Oreca and riley/Multimatic monocoque were eligible for DPi. Am I wrong?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Tique

I thought that only Dallara, Onroak, Oreca and riley/Multimatic monocoque were eligible for DPi. Am I wrong?

You are correct. I believe he was talking more about design specs than anything else, since P1 and P2 tubs are effectively identical nowadays(result of safety rules).

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Tique

I thought that only Dallara, Onroak, Oreca and riley/Multimatic monocoque were eligible for DPi. Am I wrong?

With IMSA's P2-DPi class split it wouldn't be beyond imagination for them to let the Korean manufacturers dollars flow into the series if the stream is thick enough and allow a Ginetta designed tub to 'compete' in their top prototype class (not saying it's likely either).

[Juntos]

Is the Ginetta going to appear in Japan?



They say a person needs just three things to be truly happy in this world: someone to love, something to do, and something to hope for.

[Akrapovic]

It'd be a few months late if it appeared in Japan

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It'd be a few months late if it appeared in Japan

I am already pointing out to the Super-Season 2019/2020 with irony. As we will not have many Hypercars, let's hope for the return of the Ginetta.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

We will have zero hypercars because that's for 2020/2021.

[TF110]

I believe that the current lmp1's of the private teams will be grandfathered for the first season. I think that is the best way to go unless you have a lot of partakers in the first year of these new regs.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by templer

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ewa...in-de-semaine/

The technical director of Ginetta will leave the manufacturer this weekend. I think this marks the final end for the Ginetta LMP1 project.
Really sad as the car was the most promising design of all privateers but could never show it

Apparently not, seems Ewan Baldry's departure is unrelated. He received an offer he couldn't refuse, so would have left the company regardless.

And, according to Graham, it would appear that, for now, the programme is dormant, rather than dead, and that there's a glimmer (or maybe a bit more than a glimmer) of hope that we'll see one car for the remaining three races of this season. I know, we've been here before, but Graham sounded genuinely hopeful. Fingers crossed!

[Columbus]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Apparently not, seems Ewan Baldry's departure is unrelated. He received an offer he couldn't refuse, so would have left the company regardless.

And, according to Graham, it would appear that, for now, the programme is dormant, rather than dead, and that there's a glimmer (or maybe a bit more than a glimmer) of hope that we'll see one car for the remaining three races of this season. I know, we've been here before, but Graham sounded genuinely hopeful. Fingers crossed!

Graham who?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Columbus

Graham who?

Graham Goodwin (Daily Sportscar editor). Graham understands that funding to resurrect the programme is now in place and that the LMEM and ACO just need to be convinced that they are able to pay whatever fines are due. If I've understood correctly, it all comes down to the response from the LMEM and ACO. If they get the green light, it appears that it would be for a single car entry only.

[Columbus]

Ah.... thought you were referring to Graeme Lowdon (who was last reported as having left the project).

I hope Graham Goodwin is correct about funding, but I think Ginetta has bigger problems to overcome. The Ginetta LMP1 has not been seen since Le Mans, where it performed like a mid-field LMP2. Mecachrome got the blame, but who knows how it will perform or how reliable it will be with AER power. Has it even done any testing? Can they really gain enough data from three single-entry races to catch the established constructors?

The departed tech chief probably figured out the answer to that just before he quit.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Columbus

Has it even done any testing? Can they really gain enough data from three single-entry races to catch the established constructors?

No idea, but I'd be very surprised if it transpires that they have been testing since installing the AER engine.