Audi LMP1 Discussion

[Deleted]

The pace doesn't matter one way or another if they cannot fix the very apparent, quite possibly lethal reliability issues in one months time.

I don't see any problems with the on-site personnel and racing preparations itself, it's just as good as it has always been.

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Granted, it seems so far that everyone, at least also Porsche, are much slower in sector 2 than last year. That's to be expected for aero packages that aren't far removed at all from their LM aero.

i thought porsche's setup was much closer to the le mans package last yaer than it is this year. they also had a lot more top speed last year.

[chernaudi]

I might be a bit jaded because of looking for something to make me feel a bit happier after some stuff that's caused me anxiety the past couple of weeks, but as an Audi fan, I don't see a ton to be hopeful about right now.

[ederss7]

Audi have been a mess lately. Reliability is getting worse and worse, stupid strategy calls, questionable aero packages, engine seals penalty, DNF for rule violation, etc. We may see for the first time this year an Audi LMP1 entered by Audi Sport Team Joest retiring at Le Mans with mechanical failure( I don't consider that loosing wheel in 2007 a mechanical failure). Amazing feat they have. Since 1999, 14 Le Mans 24h with a total of 40 entries and not a single retirement with mechanical failure is something amazing.

[Deleted]

Well, there have been mechanical failures, just not terminal ones they couldn't fix , and usually quicker than it took someone else to do routine pitstop

But I very much agree. This will be a true trial at the 24.

[chernaudi]

I'm starting to think that Audi fell behind the curb after LM last year and they're just as bad off by trying to leap ahead.

Unless things pick up and soon, 2016 will be for Audi what 2014 was for Porsche, a building year. Sadly, even accounting for the fact that they haven't done a ton of performance testing yet, they said that the new car was supposed to be a big leap. But I haven't seen it on track yet. Combined with the reliability issues and the fact that the car seems to be a total pain to work on, I'm not hugely hopeful right now.

[sssssssss]

at least it's crazy ugly. i think if things keep going like this, the 2016 r18 might go down in history as the worst prototype audi sport has ever built. at least the r8c was a beauty to look at...

[TF110]

The R15 wasn't the greatest thing either. No one is immune to getting things wrong, or at least not as right as the competition. But at least they're somewhat close.

[chernaudi]

Close? They're almost 2 seconds off the pace. They're not much faster than Toyota or Porsche in terms of top speed, but yet are that much off the pace. If their high downforce kit is faster, they should run it even if they take a hit in top speed.

Audi better have something in reserve, because right now I can't help but think that they missed the mark. Sometimes being really advanced in terms of aero or other tech isn't always so good out of the box.

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Well, there have been mechanical failures, just not terminal ones they couldn't fix , and usually quicker than it took someone else to do routine pitstop

But I very much agree. This will be a true trial at the 24.

But missing one session because of front axle issue is very worrying. This is the team that built the R8 that could change in minutes the gearbox.

[Artur]

Let's remind that, at Silverstone's Friday, Audi was massively slower than Porsche too(1.7s in FP1 and 1.8s in FP2).

How did that turn out? They trashed Porsche at a wet qualifying and were on par in the race.

Maybe the LD kit don't suit Spa well and they will not be competitive this weekend but I still don't see the situation as badly as for Toyota, which still needs to prove if their TS050 have speed.

I'm sure if Audi finishes 1-2 here, this end-of-the-world expectation towards Audi will quicky change for LM.... I'll wait for tomorrow's QLF and specially the race to, then, deem this car as a failure, or not.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

But missing one session because of front axle issue is very worrying. This is the team that built the R8 that could change in minutes the gearbox.

Yeah I know, that's exactly what I've been saying for these last few posts. The piece you quoted was reference to that historical perfection, now perhaps starting to collapse.

---
In regards to R15, at least that turtle was built to last like a tank.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Reliability is and will always be a worry. Let's see what tomorrow brings.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Artur

I'm sure if Audi finishes 1-2 here, this end-of-the-world expectation towards Audi will quicky change for LM.... I'll wait for tomorrow's QLF and specially the race to, then, deem this car as a failure, or not.

Even if they won Spa by 10 laps, I would still remain skeptical. I wouldn't had the pre running been different, but it is what it is now.

Pug 2010 never forget.

[carbon_titanium]

well 2 bad hybrid issues in 2 race week-end isn't a lot promising.

[MihokS5]

I wouldn't worry just yet guys. Like Artur said, this was the same scenario as Silverstone and Audi never goes hard in FP.
I think tomorrow they will turn up the wick and we will see improved times.
The biggest threat as others have stated is this new hybrid system that clearly can be volatile

[chernaudi]

I'd like to be hopeful and I've talked to a couple of people who were there or observed practice better than I could, but the reliability issues are a bit worrying.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Artur

Let's remind that, at Silverstone's Friday, Audi was massively slower than Porsche too(1.7s in FP1 and 1.8s in FP2).

How did that turn out? They trashed Porsche at a wet qualifying and were on par in the race.

Maybe the LD kit don't suit Spa well and they will not be competitive this weekend but I still don't see the situation as badly as for Toyota, which still needs to prove if their TS050 have speed.

I'm sure if Audi finishes 1-2 here, this end-of-the-world expectation towards Audi will quicky change for LM.... I'll wait for tomorrow's QLF and specially the race to, then, deem this car as a failure, or not.

Really?... They were only .2 off Audi's best lap in Silverstone. The car has serious potential. Top speed at Spa is near as fast as Porsche (only down a couple kmh) but fastest in sector 2. I don't think Audi is going to be far behind at Spa. They just need to get the setup together.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Artur

Let's remind that, at Silverstone's Friday, Audi was massively slower than Porsche too(1.7s in FP1 and 1.8s in FP2).

How did that turn out? They trashed Porsche at a wet qualifying and were on par in the race.

Whilst that is true, it is important to remember that Silverstone was the first time that Porsche had used rain tires on the 919. The wet set-up was far from perfect.
In fact I have a theory that Audi went with their very soft suspension set-up (that they had used for qualifying in the wet) into the race, and that would explain the plank wear.

Originally Posted by Artur

Maybe the LD kit don't suit Spa well and they will not be competitive this weekend but I still don't see the situation as badly as for Toyota, which still needs to prove if their TS050 have speed.

I'm sure if Audi finishes 1-2 here, this end-of-the-world expectation towards Audi will quicky change for LM.... I'll wait for tomorrow's QLF and specially the race to, then, deem this car as a failure, or not.

Audi is loosing most of its time (based on FP1&2 times) in S2. The LDF package is hurting them there. In the other sectors they are competitive.

The actual race is a whole different ball game. Look at what happened to the #1 with a ~ 46 second lead at Silverstone.

[sssssssss]

audi were claiming their lap times will be a bit faster in 2016 than in 2015, which was confirmed at the prologue and at silverstone. yet here, they are 1.5 seconds off their practice pace in 2015, still with a LD package, as in 2015. they're either sandbagging or they have a lot of work to do on this setup.

the suspension problem they had yesterday also got me wondering whether it was a suspension thing that got their ride height lower than legal in silverstone, so in a quick attempt to try and fix that, they maybe destabilized other aspects of the car's suspension, hence the failure yesterday and the overall obviously slower lap times than what they (and everyone else) anticipated.

[MyNameIsNigel]

All competitors are currently running at a slower pace than last year. I wouldn't be surprised however if they end up doing 1:54-55s.

[sssssssss]

porsche expected to be slightly slower this year (not the case in silverstone because now they used the proper aero setup for the track). toyota are faster, which was expected, because last year they were completely off the pace. audi have shown nothing more than problems so far...

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

All competitors are currently running at a slower pace than last year. I wouldn't be surprised however if they end up doing 1:54-55s.

The only one running slower than last year at this stage of the weekend (ie FP3) is Audi. Porsche, Toyota and privateers are faster.

[sssssssss]

well, porsche aren't faster if you don't count the qualfiying run. they didn't do a qualifying run in practice last year.

anyway, the sector data is interesting:

audi gain significant time in both sectors 1 & 3 as compared to last year (32.728 vs. 33.463 s1 & 29.957 vs. 30.412 s3) but lose a whole lot on sector 2 (55.636 vs. 53.292). it's amazing how quick their LD car was last year on sector 2. they also got more top speed now - 312 km/h vs. 309.5 km/h last year. also, aside from porsche's qualifying run, it seems the audi has the fastest sectors 1 & 3 now of all cars, they just lose too much time in sector 2.

seems like a good setup for le mans though, with the massive top speed and added acceleration.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by TF110

Really?... They were only .2 off Audi's best lap in Silverstone. The car has serious potential. Top speed at Spa is near as fast as Porsche (only down a couple kmh) but fastest in sector 2. I don't think Audi is going to be far behind at Spa. They just need to get the setup together.

This 0.2s is misleading because their average pace was ridiculous compared to the VAGs. Also, the gap was +0.5s(at the begining when everybody was pushing 100%) before the #6 did a faster lap time towards the end. The #7 didn't go for a fast lap time at the end of the race because it had a confortable win in the bag unlike the #2 and the #6 and that masked Audi's true potential fastest lap time.

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The actual race is a whole different ball game. Look at what happened to the #1 with a ~ 46 second lead at Silverstone.

Let's never forget that such big margin happened only because Treluyer spun and lost 30s. What would have happened to #1 had they kept running is unkown(very good chance of winning but you never know...) but, although it indeed had a slightly better pace until it's accident, most of it's lead advantage came from a Benoit's mistake and the typical slow pit stops of the Audi.

Originally Posted by sssssssss

audi were claiming their lap times will be a bit faster in 2016 than in 2015, which was confirmed at the prologue and at silverstone. yet here, they are 1.5 seconds off their practice pace in 2015, still with a LD package, as in 2015.

The 8% decrease on ICE's power affects laptimes differently according to each particular layout. I already posted on the race thread that, at Spa, they likely wouldn't be faster than last year.

Porsche's FP3 is still almost 2s from last years best QLF and they only had the Saturday(and Sunday, of course) of dry running, last year, which means that the 2015 pole could've been even faster.