[BTCC] BTCC 2019 - Snetterton - Rounds 16, 17, 18 + testing

[S griffin]

For me this new tyre rule is an interesting experiment and did lead to some interesting racing. Not the worst rule we could have. At least those that don't like it know the next race at Thruxton doesn't have the soft tyre rule

Tingram's win was just reward for all the hard work they did. Shame about his problem in R2, but at least he recovered well in R3.

Colin once again taking an opportunist win, while banking points elsewhere. AJ tried limiting the damage where he could. Cammish is really looking very consistent atm. Now all he needs is a win

Nice to see Butcher get a win by crossing the line first this time. He deserved it for that move alone.

Plato, I wonder if he's still suffering a bruised ego from Ash beating him when they were team mates. He was back to his old ways and Ash has a right to be peed off, he was driving cleanly and Plato just seemed to resort to underhand behaviour to stay in front. I'm glad he has got punished for both that and blatantly pushing Smiley out the way on the first lap

Good recovery by Cook in R3 after a tough weekend. Shame about Chilton's puncture, but good to see Ollie up there all weekend. He's showing he's good enough for that seat. Also Simpson was up there, which is good to see. Good to see the Infiniti making progress through the field in R1. And well done Sam Osbourne, giving him and the team it's first points in the series. Poor Jelley though seems to have used all his good luck up at Oulton, at least he got fastest lap.

So glad the BTCC is back after the summer break more than anything

[Sodemo]

I can’t really add any more to the discussion re; Plato and Sutton. It was pretty obvious that Sutton was trying to keep it as clean as possible, but Plato is Plato. It was a fantastic battle while it lasted though.

One thing I hope for is if this 3 compound per race day thing becomes the norm is that the compounds are moved slightly closer together in terms of performance. The hard was just too slow and the soft was probably too quick.

[S griffin]

I think that would help, if they didn’t try to make the compounds too different from each other

[crmalcolm]

If the compounds are too close, there's no point in having different compounds.

If they continue with varied compounds, then they need to give obvious differences in characteristics.

BTCC operates on a model of applying factors to make a result unpredictable, and rewarding those who cope with the factors best.

Smiley's R3 result is the type of performance that I personally watch BTCC for. He was on the 'wrong' tyre, but got a podium. This proves that results can be obtained despite the 'handicap', and should be recognised for the achievement. Too many people try to look at BTCC with a negative perspective in my mind, rather than accepting it as a series designed to give entertainment first, and sporting excellence second.

[Akrapovic]

I'm not a Sutton fan, but even I have to say this is still nonsense.

JPs penalty should be a back of the grid start for R1 next event. When you amass that many incidents in a single race, that's beyond what a strike system is designed to cope with. It was literally impossible for anyone to race JP clean in the race. At the earliest opportunity, he hit both Smiley and Sutton. The only way to beat him was to pass and immediatly gap him, which is obviously impossible within a single corner. That simply isn't cricket.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If the compounds are too close, there's no point in having different compounds.

If they continue with varied compounds, then they need to give obvious differences in characteristics.

BTCC operates on a model of applying factors to make a result unpredictable, and rewarding those who cope with the factors best.

Smiley's R3 result is the type of performance that I personally watch BTCC for. He was on the 'wrong' tyre, but got a podium. This proves that results can be obtained despite the 'handicap', and should be recognised for the achievement. Too many people try to look at BTCC with a negative perspective in my mind, rather than accepting it as a series designed to give entertainment first, and sporting excellence second.

I think that if Plato hadn't been holding up the field (R3 was the slowest of the day) that there is a possibility that Smiley may not have been able to retain his podium position.

Plato more than deserved his penalties - his driving standard in that R3 were abominable and I think that the Steward/CoC/Race Director was overly lenient. That type of behaviour has no place in any circuit racing.

Regarding the comment from one of the posters about Sutton may try to claim that he didn't see Butcher make his move down the inside of Plato going under the bridge, the poster should be aware that Sutton was already alongside Plato on the outside before Butcher made his move to the inside. It was Plato who moved to squeeze Sutton out, and thus caused the coming together.

[groulsch]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Pretty gutted about the grief Sutton was getting on social media last night. He doesn't deserve that.

He beat JP in the same car for two seasons, raced hard but fair, yet the amount of tweets and comments angry at him for having the cheek for even trying to overtake Plato is pretty disheartening. Seem like most people didn't realise Plato was penalised.

I've followed this series for a long time, this is a bitter pill to swallow.

I don't think Sutton will lose any sleep over it. He has been vindicated by the stewards, not to mention all the years he has been destroying Plato in the results.

Similar to Rob Austin, Jason Plato has a very large but weird fan base where fans are in love with them and they can do no wrong in their eyes. I honestly think that some of them would sell their grannies to be able to smell their dirty jocks!!

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Pretty gutted about the grief Sutton was getting on social media last night. He doesn't deserve that.

He beat JP in the same car for two seasons, raced hard but fair, yet the amount of tweets and comments angry at him for having the cheek for even trying to overtake Plato is pretty disheartening. Seem like most people didn't realise Plato was penalised.

I've followed this series for a long time, this is a bitter pill to swallow.

There are some real numpties out there who have access to social media unfortunately. I just hope it never spills over into real life and there are problems at the tracks.

[slummingangel]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Pretty gutted about the grief Sutton was getting on social media last night. He doesn't deserve that.

He beat JP in the same car for two seasons, raced hard but fair, yet the amount of tweets and comments angry at him for having the cheek for even trying to overtake Plato is pretty disheartening. Seem like most people didn't realise Plato was penalised.

I've followed this series for a long time, this is a bitter pill to swallow.

I'd been checking Twitter (i normally avoid it like the plague) to see reactions from the drivers to the penalties. The venom Sutton was getting on his page was totally uncalled for and made me feel a little sick that there is 'fans' out there like that.

[Pickles]

Excellent to see Team HARD making some progress, couple of points finishes for Thompson and Goff getting up to 11th (10th after Plato's penalty) in race 3

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

There are some real numpties out there who have access to social media unfortunately. I just hope it never spills over into real life and there are problems at the tracks.

On the bright side, most of those "won't ever watch the BTCC again" after Plato's penalty. What a shame 😂

[VIVA GT]

I find it interesting that these 'numpties' also all appear to be fans of a certain driver too...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I find it interesting that these 'numpties' also all appear to be fans of a certain driver too...

Today's numpties are because of one race. Tomorrow's numpties might all be fans of Neal, Jordan or Chilton.

[Johno.UK]

There was every bit as much "hatred" directed towards Turkington and Neal gets it every round. There is very much a football type element in the BTCC fanbase (look on a football Facebook page if you don't know what happens there) who take everything to extremes to get a rise out of people and/or are fanatical in their support for their driver.


I don't think it was personal from Plato to Sutton, definitely personal on the car/team but not the driver. I'm hoping there is a bit more background to the whole BMR saga in Platos book as I'm still struggling to see how Plato could be so close to Turkington in that car and so far away from Sutton. Sutton is a huge talent without a doubt but that much better than Turks and Plato?



I totally understand the purists not enjoying the race but it was always going to be like that if Plato got in front. Smiley would have settled for the podium (he had already said that pre-race) so Sutton would have sailed off into the distance with Plato and Smiley getting gobbled up by the soft tyre cars as the race went on. Platos only chance was to control the pace of the race and let Sutton get mixed up in the battle. I was amazed that Sutton did so badly at the start of the race when he should have had a big advantage and I thought he was very naive with the placing of his car in both incidents.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

I totally understand the purists not enjoying the race but it was always going to be like that if Plato got in front. Smiley would have settled for the podium (he had already said that pre-race) so Sutton would have sailed off into the distance with Plato and Smiley getting gobbled up by the soft tyre cars as the race went on. Platos only chance was to control the pace of the race and let Sutton get mixed up in the battle. I was amazed that Sutton did so badly at the start of the race when he should have had a big advantage and I thought he was very naive with the placing of his car in both incidents.

I can't agree with this. IMO, that's just victim-blaming. If you're in a situation where a race is "always going to be like that" when driver X leads, then that driver shouldn't be in a racing car. And saying Sutton was naive is giving him the responsibility to avoid being driven into by someone.

That's not ok IMO, and if this was any other driver in any other series then we'd be asking why there wasn't a ban.

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I can't agree with this. IMO, that's just victim-blaming. If you're in a situation where a race is "always going to be like that" when driver X leads, then that driver shouldn't be in a racing car. And saying Sutton was naive is giving him the responsibility to avoid being driven into by someone.

That's not ok IMO, and if this was any other driver in any other series then we'd be asking why there wasn't a ban.

Is that being any better than the people on social media by implying that one driver is treated differently from others though? Why should he get a ban for one slight push at the first hairpin and one blatant one later on? Plenty of other drivers have hit people more than once in a race this year but no-one was talking about a ban for them. Just because it wasn't at the front of the grid doesn't change it.

Races like this are always going to happen with tyres like that and that's why they did it to a large extent. If drivers are just going to say "I'm on the worst tyre and he's on the best so I'll just wave him by" the TV audience would soon switch off. It's the argy bargy that people love about the BTCC. Trying to turn it into some sort of tin top F1 or historic "after you Claude" race will kill it off for sure.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I can't agree with this. IMO, that's just victim-blaming. If you're in a situation where a race is "always going to be like that" when driver X leads, then that driver shouldn't be in a racing car. And saying Sutton was naive is giving him the responsibility to avoid being driven into by someone.

That's not ok IMO, and if this was any other driver in any other series then we'd be asking why there wasn't a ban.

Two comments post-race confirm to me that Plato (at least) made a mistake that took Sutton out.

First was from Plato himself, where he said that he had Tordoff (it was actually Butcher) inside him so he had to give room:

'I slid a bit into Ash and it all got a bit messy'.

Then O'Neill mentioned that from the head-on shot you could see Plato attempted to brake as late as the Subaru and locked up. Whether it was deliberate or not, Plato had locked his wheels which resulted in contact.

What was even more disappointing was the lack of respect Plato held for a former teammate who is also a former champion:

'You're a silly lad if you come around the outside of me on a 90 right.
He tried it a couple of times and I think he learnt his lesson.'

I tend to think his actions in taking out Sutton were deliberate when Louise Goodman suggested the action was a bit forceful, to which he replied 'that's what it's about is it not?'

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

It's the argy bargy that people love about the BTCC.

That view is not held by all. It is a fine line, and the best of BTCC can at times be seen with an extensive amount of contact.

But deliberate argy bargy is just wrong.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by Evantra

On the bright side, most of those "won't ever watch the BTCC again" after Plato's penalty. What a shame ��

Watching it back makes these sorts of comments all the more sour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6uXfutlHmI&t=41s

I see that the PMR Twitter was stoking the fire too.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by BobJones

Watching it back makes these sorts of comments all the more sour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6uXfutlHmI&t=41s

I see that the PMR Twitter was stoking the fire too.

Watching it again, I have to say massive respect for Ash. I am sure a few drivers would have had an attack of red mist and done a revenge punt, but Ash continued to drive cleanly

And he’s right about JP being brainless. Brainless to think he could get up to his old tricks and get away with it, when a) the stewards are more strict on dirty driving and b) him not being the ‘big star’ of the series after a bad couple of seasons

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by BobJones

Watching it back makes these sorts of comments all the more sour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6uXfutlHmI&t=41s

I see that the PMR Twitter was stoking the fire too.

Amazed at how far back Rory came from. Could have been a podium for Hill too.

[porsche962fan]

what happaned to Hill ? , he droped a lot mid-race

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

what happaned to Hill ? , he droped a lot mid-race

Dropped a bit? He retired the car!

https://www.facebook.com/abgospares/...706?__tn__=K-R

[porsche962fan]

he could have a legit win this time



BTW why does Plato moan about BMW and Honda engines when Tingram absolutly dominated with the same TOCA unit....

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

Is that being any better than the people on social media by implying that one driver is treated differently from others though? Why should he get a ban for one slight push at the first hairpin and one blatant one later on? Plenty of other drivers have hit people more than once in a race this year but no-one was talking about a ban for them. Just because it wasn't at the front of the grid doesn't change it.

Being a tad generous there? You could reword it to "Why should he get a ban for hitting the leader 3 times?". The answer is obvious

He didn't rub the back of another car. He didn't make slight contact. He wasn't trying to just unsettle the car in front. Three times he hit the leader. All 3 times it was the very first opportunity he was presented with. You could make a good argument that the last one was a mistake, however, Jasons wording on Ash being taught a lesson suggests otherwise. The first 2 incidents were the very first chance he had - he drove into the leader and took the lead.

According to the BTCCs own regulations (unless it has changed again for 2019), 3 strikes is a back of the grid. He gained 3 in a single race. A 4th strike in 12 months is a ban.

http://www.btcc.net/2017/10/24/rule-...8-btcc-season/

Blaming anyone but JP for the incidents is madness. It becomes online racing where you have to watch your mirror for the 12 year old kid who is upset you're beating him and isn't going to brake for the next corner. It's not the leaders responsibility to not be rear-ended by the dangerous driver.