STANDARDS AUSTRALIA and Motor Racing

[spook]

Standards Australia held a forum on the 13th May 2004 to discuss the need for a standard in motor racing. Standards Australia determined from the feedback from this forum that a standard would not be appropriate at this time. The forum did indicate, however, that there was wide support for an application guide (Risk Management in Motor Racing)showing how risk management can be applied in motor racing. To this end, Standards Australia has approved the formation of a working group, under Committee B-007 Risk Management, to develop this document.

It is expected that the handbook will be published in 2005.

[SRabbit]

It would take 10 years to write a standard for motor sport! My company is involved in chemical manufacturing and we have just been through the standards procass as well as configuring everything to OH&S requirements - Labelling of Workplace Substances NOHSC:2012[1994] is needed just to produce a new label for a product and it is 69 full A4 pages of requirements alone - I'd hate to see the requirements needed to stand in front of a racecar coming straight at you at 40 to stop on your toes in the pits!

[Gaz170]

Originally posted by SRabbit
....I'd hate to see the requirements needed to stand in front of a racecar coming straight at you at 40 to stop on your toes in the pits!

A portable, removable, concrete safety wall!

[MickAU]

Spook,
Is there anywhere that a report on this can be downloaded/read?

[Racer Dude]

This would be the last thing Australian motorsport needs.

Standards are normally impossible to fully comply with, if all companies followed all their relevant standards to a tee, they wouldn't be in business, and they would be so uncompetitive compared to overseas imports.

Standards are a profit making business, the more standards they can write the more they can sell.

I can’t see the benefit for motorsport at all. The sport is always finding ways to make it a safer sport anyway!

[Chronicle]

Don't know much about Australian Standards (AS), eh Mr. Dude?

Aust. Standards are developed by the industry they are meant to represent. In other words AS for Electric Blankets would be developed by Standards Australia with expert help from Electric Blanket Manufacturers, Electricians, etc. Standards Australia are only the moderator in the process.

Go an find out a bit before you comment on stuff.

Worked around many racetracks, Mr Dude? Obviously not or you would know that there are always some safety improvements to be, whether it be for spectators, officials, race teams.

[SRabbit]

Um... Mr Chronicle - go start an electric blanket manufacturing plant and try and get the required standards you need for free.....bet they cost you a couple of hundred. Then, once you have conformed and have your Quality system in place to make sure your blankets meet the standard - guess who you have to ring to get Quality Assurance - that's right - the same people that sold you the standard - it will cost you, depending on the size of your company, anywhere from $430 to $850 to APPLY for certification. You don't even want to know what a third party audit of your system will cost to get your certificate, which you then have to pay to keep every year ( after an annual audit that is!).....so leave Mr Dude alone!

[Matthew Ronke]

Sounds cheap compared to a CAMS track Licences

[SRabbit]

well, part of any really good quality system is an integrated environmental system, for which you repeat the process of the quality system. it is becoming fairly mandatory to show that what you are doing will not impact on the environment - so I would say there would be standards drawn up for this for motor sport with regard to noise pollution, exhaust emissions, disposal of oils and fuels etc. It can cost anywhere up to $100,000 + to develop and have certified your system, on top of probably around the same for the quality system. honestly - for motorsport it is just waaaaayyy too hard

[Racer Dude]

Well said SRabbit

And for Mr Chronicle, you could say I have a very close connection with standards Australia (Member) and also have been relatively close to the action in the pits at many race meetings.

Standards do have their place in business. But it would be nice to see motorsport stay away from politics and paper work! Just good old racing and common sense!!

[Chronicle]

Originally posted by SRabbit
Um... Mr Chronicle - go start an electric blanket manufacturing plant and try and get the required standards you need for free.....bet they cost you a couple of hundred. Then, once you have conformed and have your Quality system in place to make sure your blankets meet the standard - guess who you have to ring to get Quality Assurance - that's right - the same people that sold you the standard - it will cost you, depending on the size of your company, anywhere from $430 to $850 to APPLY for certification. You don't even want to know what a third party audit of your system will cost to get your certificate, which you then have to pay to keep every year ( after an annual audit that is!).....so leave Mr Dude alone!

Ah Mr. Rabbit, decided to buy in have we. Just before I get started let me advise you that I worked as a Quality Manager of an Organisation for 6.5 years who was the largest in their field (and still is)

Anyway,
1. who said you have gain Certification?
2. If you decide to gain Certification, who said you have to use Standards Aust., there are lots of Certifying bodies out there, NATA, Lloyds, just to name a couple.
3. Please don't get Quality Assurace (or the ISO 9000 series) confused with manufacturing standards.
4. Go back and read the first post, particularly where it says that the "guide" would be based on the current Risk Management Australian Standard. (AS/NZS 4360:1999 : Risk management)

[SRabbit]

1. who says a governing body like AVESCO is going to take your word that you internally audit a complete and correct system? we are, after all, still finding mysterious inexplicable wiring to control components. If AVESCO are serious about intitiating a standard and enforcing it, everyone involved with the cars and teams will need a system in place so that the whole body known as V8Supercars works together - and that will have to extend to drivers, crew, the man selling hotdogs out of the caravan and the bloke showing you where to park your car. It will end the contribution of the car clubs to the weekends as they will not be able to be involved. Even IF they were able to avoid certification, they would have to factor in the costs of man hours to prepare and monitor ( probably a new full time employee ) not to mention the costs of changing the way you do things to conform to the standard - it will still cost $100K+ p.a
2. Wouldn't matter which company you chose - all costs the same
3. Under the Government contracts we have in place in my company we are required to maintain certification for ISO9001:2000 as a manufcaturer and supplier of products for the duration of the contract.(see the next point)
4. Since I am not familiar with the contents of 4360:1999, I am going to make a general statement that you will probably shoot down - it's all the same anyway. All the standard are written to stop you from hurting yourself or someone else. They break them down so you feel good about getting the one you 'need' for your particular situation. However, to write a standrad for motorsport is one I wouldn't want to be involved in. It will have to extend from the way the mechanics do their work back at the factory, how the cars are loaded, secudred, tansported, what's the truck driver wearing?, unloaded, imagine the section of getting UNDER the car, the crew, how the fuel is handled, it may even extend to whats allowed to go on on the track so no one crashes, the guy in the caravan with his hotdogs, hows the van moved and secured, how much of his packaging can be recycled, is the guy in the car park going to get run over? how do you know? what about the poor bloke who gets a car stopped on his toes with the pit board. on & on & on & on........

[Chronicle]

You are right on one point; yes I am going to shoot you down.

The first poster on this thread said quite clearly that there is NOT going to be an Australian Standard for Motorsport, or did I miss something, they said a GUIDE was going to be developed and this GUIDE would be for RISK MANAGEMENT, that means MANAGING RISKS on the race track. In case you don't know what MANAGING RISKS means, it means you go out into the workplace (race track) and identify all the RISKS or hazards (these are things where people can hurt themselves), then you list all the RISKS you can find (it is a good idea to use specialists to help you do this, for example - flaggies), then when you have listed all the RISKS you rate them according to A RISK assessment matrix.

Once you have done these jobs, the outcome will have been that you should have identified all the really bad things that people can hurt themselves doing, to the not-so-bad things.

From that, you then fix the really bad things first, then you work you way down the list until you fix the not-so-bad things last. Then you go and start the whole process again, because things change all the time.

THIS PROCESS IS CALLED MANAGING RISKS, there are also lots of other things involved in RISK MANAGEMENT, but I think that will do for today’s lesson.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET AUDITED FOR RISK MANAGEMENT UNLESS YOU WANT TO!, however there are tools out there to do it with for example AS/NZS 4804:2001 - Occupational health and safety management systems, or in Victoria you can use SafetyMAP, and yes I have a pretty good background in OH&S as well.

I get the feeling that you are quite happy to work in UNSAFE places, maybe you should step back and have a look around yourself.

And if you think I am being sarcastic and flippant, you are absolutely sopt-on!

[SRabbit]

the only thing i have learnt from that is that i should use bold and caps together - thanks! it looks great!
I am obviously coming at this from an OH&S angle, and you have backed it up by saying it is about identifying risk and how to avoid it - so thanks again!
imagine...a set of guidelines that will dictate how everything has be done in, on and around the track by everyone....TC must be champing at the bit, he will probably 'enthusiastically suggest' that AVESCO be on the commitee - you think it's a control category now - he'll have total domination!

[Chronicle]

The committee that will be establishing the Guide is already formed, and this might come as a surprise to you, but TC nor CAMS are not on it, it is the track owners, some Risk Managment experts and a few others.

You really have missed the point haven't you.

BYE!!!, no more to say to you.

[worried]

As I understand it, CAMS didn't apply for or even get an invite to the original meeting.

Now, doesn't this say something about the way CAMS really sees motorsport in this country?

The only time CAMS stick their collective heads out of their door is when someone is badly injured or killed and then only to say 'How terrible - of course we will assist with all enquiries'.

But afterwards - it is all forgotten. For example - where all of the coroners recommendations from Greg Hansfords death implemented by CAMS?

[Chronicle]

I believe CAMS were inivited but decided not to attend, I will stand corrected on that though.

[Chronicle]

Oh uh, no correction, so I must have been right.

[spook]

I believe that CAMS scheduled a meeting of the National Track Safety Committee at exactly the same time as the Standards Forum, and therefore it was unfortunate that no one from the NTSC was able to attend the Forum.

Has anyone seen any minutes of that NTSC meeting?

I did note that Professor Rod Troutbeck was there at the forum, but not representing CAMS of course.

[worried]

Chronicle - apologies didn't see your comment. You may well be correct - my information was they hadn't been invited for the initial meeting - but, as I say, I didn;t have that confirmed.

[Chronicle]

CAMS MAY resist this as it MAY mean they MAY loose the power

[Chronicle]

and here is the latest installment on this, compliments of Racenews. Interesting reading really. CAMS really has done a backflip.

Dr Rod Troutbeck, member of the CAMS National Track Safety Committee (NTSC), has been appointed as Chairman of the Standards Australia Working Group, charged with developing guidelines for managing risk in motor sport environments.

CAMS Chief Executive Officer, Dr Rob Nethercote, believes that the chairmanship of the working group is in extremely good hands.

"We are delighted that someone with so much experience has been appointed to this important position," said Nethercote.

"Dr Troutbeck has been centrally involved with the CAMS system since the early 1970's and CAMS has benefited from his expertise in the development of our track safety standards over many years."

"CAMS is currently undertaking an in-depth Australia-wide project to achieve occupational health and safety compliance by the use of risk management processes laid down in the Australian Standard AS4360.
Development of the Standards Australia guidelines document is complimentary to the CAMS process and we are pleased to be involved. We are also pleased that it is in such good hands," Nethercote concluded.

Dr Troutbeck served as Chairman of the CAMS National Track Safety Committee for a period of 10 years until 1995. In his final year as Chairman of the NTSC he was awarded life membership of CAMS in recognition of his significant contribution to track design and safety in motor sport.

Former head of the faculty of Civil Engineering at the Queensland University of Technology, Dr Troutbeck, now Managing Director of Troutbeck and Associates, is recognised as one of the world's foremost authorities on road barrier design and use.

Mr Phil Walker (Broadleaf Capital International) has been appointed deputy chair to the working group

This would have to be the biggest load of spin doctoring I have ever seen.

I believe this guy was on the committee representing other interests and CAMS have claimed him as their own.

[Matthew Ronke]

I think Bob Jane hit the nail on the head when he put out a press release last year saying CAMS are nothing but smoke & mirrors.

[Chronicle]

Having read through that garbage again, I note:

Dr Troutbeck served as Chairman of the CAMS National Track Safety Committee for a period of 10 years until 1995. In his final year as Chairman of the NTSC he was awarded life membership of CAMS...


Former head of the faculty of Civil Engineering at the Queensland University of Technology, Dr Troutbeck, now Managing Director of Troutbeck and Associates, is recognised as one of the world's foremost authorities on road barrier design and use

I rest my case.

[pete55]

I have heard the good Dr. is not representing CAMS in this matter and told them that he would not be representing them.