IMSA DPi Discussion

[FormulaFox]

This photo is the first time I have seen ANY resemblance to the GT-R in the front end of the Nissan DPi, and even then it's only JUST visible to me:



And I'm sorry to say this, but as a result of this angle I think it's the only DPi that is aesthetically a step down from the LMP2 base.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

This photo is the first time I have seen ANY resemblance to the GT-R in the front end of the Nissan DPi, and even then it's only JUST visible to me:



And I'm sorry to say this, but as a result of this angle I think it's the only DPi that is aesthetically a step down from the LMP2 base.

The front end is pretty Nissan GT-R in my eyes, shame they didn't go for more of the LMP1 styling which was really pretty. However get that that was because that project was a massive failure in that they got bored before it was a success.

I tend to agree this isn't a looker, but it's variety and extra numbers for the outright win. So I won't complain


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J Jay]

All it would take is a GT-R badge in the "grill" and the resemblance would be undeniable.

[joeb]

The Nissan DPi is 60% different from the base Ligier and the motor weighs in 50kg heavier than the Gibson. That puts the car slightly overweight and makes the balance difficult to find.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/du...igier-js-p217/

[Akrapovic]

The more I see the DPis, the more I love them. Yeah sure the Nissan is ugly and doesn't look like a Nissan. But we have variety. For a top class, that's important. They look amazing on the high banks.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The more I see the DPis, the more I love them. Yeah sure the Nissan is ugly and doesn't look like a Nissan. But we have variety. For a top class, that's important. They look amazing on the high banks.

They look different, sound different and are apparently are going to have very different performance characteristics. Good looks would only be frosting.

[bentley speed 8]

I don't think the Nissan is that ugly, and the Cadillac is growing on me more and more.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

This photo is the first time I have seen ANY resemblance to the GT-R in the front end of the Nissan DPi, and even then it's only JUST visible to me. And I'm sorry to say this, but as a result of this angle I think it's the only DPi that is aesthetically a step down from the LMP2 base.

It looks 100% different in it's livery.

[RWill2073]

As long as the Nissan outlines the bits inside the grill area to show the "Nissan" shape, it will look cool. If may be a little fugly, but that's kind of cool in its own way. Its refrshing to have an ugly prototype that we can still appreciate as opposed to ugly dp's masquerading as prototypes. Kinda like some of the concoctions you used to get back in the 80s or 90s like the cannibal and others.

[Maelochs]

No way a GTLM will win ... one of the DPis will just dial it back a bit and take the win if the rest start blowing up. They can give up four or five seconds to the GTLMs and still have an edge. Shoot, Mazda could win if all the rest break.

[TF110]

I wonder if esm is using the gtr gt3 engine just because that's what is available 'on the cheap' or the fastest approach? It's obviously making the car overweight, but may be worth it if it's good power. So why not something like that gtr lmp1 engine? Or the super gt engine? I think Nissan is a willing partner but not to the point of the others (obviously). So with the recent interview, I wonder if next year they step up support and the engine and it's components gets lighter or changed? And if it's ESM doing the bodywork, what is the chances that the lmp1-p rumor is true and they find a way to get the car over to the wec or LM?

[chernaudi]

We already know (despite what the actual Super GT engine did) that Nissan claims that the VK45 can't reliably make 600+bhp in race trim for more than a sprint race. Of course, even given that the VK45 is basically a stock block engine (though only the basic block and heads carried over from production), we know that the old LMP1 spec Zytek (now Gibson) 4.5 V8 can last 24 hours, and that the VK45 with no air restrictors or rev limiters can make over 800bhp.

However, that's in short burst and probably with other special considerations. The GT-R's engine is forced induction and already reliably makes 600bhp in GT3 trim.

Of course, everyone's taking a power hit for Daytona since though they probably engine and chassis dyno'd it for 30 hours a couple of times, the Gibson 4.2 LMP2 V8 hasn't yet done a 24 hour race. But then again, neither has the GM LT engine, certainly not above the GTLM/GTE power restrictions, or Mazda's evolution of their 2.0T four banger, or most anyone else's engine.

The Nissan GT-R engine has done 24 hour races, but not in a prototype. I don't know if that makes much of a difference or not, but packaging between the GT-R GT3 and the Ligier LMP2 chassis is very different.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by joeb

The Nissan DPi is 60% different from the base Ligier and the motor weighs in 50kg heavier than the Gibson. That puts the car slightly overweight and makes the balance difficult to find.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/du...igier-js-p217/

Crikey, 50Kg is a substantial amount to have to remove, kind of makes sense why the Gibson and Mazda were fastest, probably quite nimble in the in-field, but wasnt the Mazda fastest in a straight line also?...... I can imagine they have 20-30Kg of ballast to play with......removing 50Kg is a massive undertaking, I would not be surprised if ESM-Nissam resort to a single-turbo layout, as this will save a fair slice of weight......otherwise, I'm scratching my head regarding how to remove such a huge lump of weight from a production base engine. But for a 24 hour race, they might not be the fastest..... but the Nissan V6 will be a very low-stress engine, so more likely to go the distance and might take a sneaky podium, after everyone else has blown up, same for the Cadillac, it would not surprise me if its a race of attrition for all the Gibson and AER powered DPi's......I will be very surprised if those motors go the full distance

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by knighty

.... wasnt the Mazda fastest in a straight line also?......

Interesting. I hadn't looked at the top speed comparison, but the Mazdas was almost 3 mph faster than the rest of the field--it ought to trail flames a long way when it explodes.

Seriouslym, that surpriosed me. I wouldn't have thought the car was that slippery of that the engine was that strong.

Fastest DPi was Ricky Taylor in the #10 WTR Cadillac, ten mph slower than he was at the December test. That boy sure can carry his sand.

[Damian Baldi]

They said time ago that would use the KV56 v8, I don't know why they moved to the v6 turbo. How much weights each one?


About final speed, I'm not sure if it is a real advantage for the race. If you try a simulator, you know that the second sector is when you really makes a difference for a qualy lap. But the first sector is the key for the race because the traffic.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Interesting. I hadn't looked at the top speed comparison, but the Mazdas was almost 3 mph faster than the rest of the field--it ought to trail flames a long way when it explodes.

Seriouslym, that surpriosed me. I wouldn't have thought the car was that slippery of that the engine was that strong.

Fastest DPi was Ricky Taylor in the #10 WTR Cadillac, ten mph slower than he was at the December test. That boy sure can carry his sand.

Turbo 4s in P cars explode? Well, I never.

I've not compared times, but I would assume it was colder for the Roar than back in December so weren't most times down?

Please bear in mind I am not discrediting the "sand" comment as it seems to be a drastic change.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Turbo 4s in P cars explode? Well, I never.

Unless they're fed and cooled by gaping whale shark-like radiator inlets a la Eagle MkIII.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Damian Baldi

They said time ago that would use the KV56 v8, I don't know why they moved to the v6 turbo. How much weights each one?

Usually large turbo engines are heavier than large NA engines.
More than weight I should be worried about mass distribution... lmp2 gibson should be in the range of 54/55% on rear, nissan dpi surely beyond 57%.
You risk to get a 911 handling style car, as it was 908HDi.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Unless they're fed and cooled by gaping whale shark-like radiator inlets a la Eagle MkIII.

Indeed!!

[Maelochs]

Several mph in top speed on the banking might be eight-15 car lengths from end to end ... The Mazda was second quickest, and fastest. Dragonspeed was second-fastest, and quickest. The quickest DPi was fifth quickest and ninth fastest, and the fastest DPi was sixth fastest and 8th quickest.

Seems to me both matter. Sure on a given lap, infield traffic might make the difference, but six mph top speed might be enough to open a gap which a car could net close through the infield.

As I heard it the whole field was slowed at the request of Gibson ... so maybe the DPis were slowed too much? or maybe the crafty players at WTR and AXR (Now Mustang and Whelen) saw the opportunity to tip the BoP scales a little bit?

At this point, I couldn't care less about which subclass ... they are all P2 chassis---they all should have about the same native capabilities. If the Dallara-based DPis got whacked too hard, that is simply not fair.

If the very experienced team owners saw a chance to get a leg up ....

IMSA officials have been crowing about the amazing new real-time, full-capture data-logging systems they just installed. Now we will see how they use them.

All I want is a fair fight between well-matched machinery. Let the drivers and crews sort it out.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Several mph in top speed on the banking might be eight-15 car lengths from end to end ... The Mazda was second quickest, and fastest. Dragonspeed was second-fastest, and quickest. The quickest DPi was fifth quickest and ninth fastest, and the fastest DPi was sixth fastest and 8th quickest.

Seems to me both matter. Sure on a given lap, infield traffic might make the difference, but six mph top speed might be enough to open a gap which a car could net close through the infield.

As I heard it the whole field was slowed at the request of Gibson ... so maybe the DPis were slowed too much? or maybe the crafty players at WTR and AXR (Now Mustang and Whelen) saw the opportunity to tip the BoP scales a little bit?

At this point, I couldn't care less about which subclass ... they are all P2 chassis---they all should have about the same native capabilities. If the Dallara-based DPis got whacked too hard, that is simply not fair.

If the very experienced team owners saw a chance to get a leg up ....

IMSA officials have been crowing about the amazing new real-time, full-capture data-logging systems they just installed. Now we will see how they use them.

All I want is a fair fight between well-matched machinery. Let the drivers and crews sort it out.

Is Mazda not a dpi? I got what you meant though. I believe that the gurney on the Cadillac's will come down a bit or they'll open up the restrictors. Not sure what the Esm Nissan will have done to it if they're overweight. I guess more power to them as well?

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by TF110

Is Mazda not a dpi?

In my mind, no it hasn't been. I guess I need to change that. But... yeah, you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by TF110

Not sure what the Esm Nissan will have done to it if they're overweight. I guess more power to them as well?

This where I hate BoP. if ESM wants to run an overweight car ... let them. It's a freaking Prototype class.

But here is where the ugly truth oozes out ... it is really a Spec Chassis class, and ESM cannot really do anything to lighten up their car ... like they would have back in the day when racing actually improved the breed.

I'd like to let the porkers suffer ... but I bet instead they get a ballast break.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Turbo 4s in P cars explode? Well, I never.

I've not compared times, but I would assume it was colder for the Roar than back in December so weren't most times down?

Please bear in mind I am not discrediting the "sand" comment as it seems to be a drastic change.

Between the Roar and the Dec test IMSA instituted some aero changes for the dpis.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

In my mind, no it hasn't been. I guess I need to change that. But... yeah, you know what I mean.

This where I hate BoP. if ESM wants to run an overweight car ... let them. It's a freaking Prototype class.

But here is where the ugly truth oozes out ... it is really a Spec Chassis class, and ESM cannot really do anything to lighten up their car ... like they would have back in the day when racing actually improved the breed.

I'd like to let the porkers suffer ... but I bet instead they get a ballast break.

At the end of the day the ESM-Nissan was a very lately conceived rush-job, quite simply they did not have time to do their homework properly, and I believe they are paying for the engine, so really you get what you pay for, as I can imagine the engine bill from Cosworth for the old 3.0L GTR V6 from the front engined LMP1 project was financially prohibitive......whereby an existing GT3 engine, off the shelf, at a bargain price looked attractive with a very short lead time.

But even if ESM can take 20-30Kg out of the powertrain package, they will be in the ball park......things like the liquid coolant, intercooling and oil cooling systems can often be drastically over-weight, by quite some margin, perhaps due to the time constraints ESM just lifted over the entire GT3 powetrtrain package, just to be at the first race......designing and building a race car in 4-5months is no small feat, so ESM even being at Daytona is a miracle in itself.

[Rodger Davies]

Really makes you wonder why they've gone down that route rather than take a stock P2 car. Hope it works out for them though.

Must say, from the testing footage it's a great looking field this year. Big fan of the PR1 livery personally too.