Minardi Team USA (merged)

[mountainstar]

At last check Lola would build a new Lola champcar for $650,000.

For what you get from Panoz compared to the cost of other cars I think it is very reasonable.

[Tim Northcutt]

Keep in mind....

Dispute the content of the post, and do not attack the poster....

I don't want to have to warn people or sanction anyone on this....

Keep it clean and above board in your responses...

[JohnSSC]

Any idea, mountainstar, what is included in the Lola roller vs the Panoz?

Historically, Lola has always been pricey. I remember back in the day their sports racers were always more expensive than the competition - not that they were bad cars - Carl Haas has been involved for so long I wonder how much of the "cost" was his markup as importer.

The Panoz is a direct sale with no middle man, correct?

[indycool]

John, true that Haas' markup on chassis and parts made team accountants wince for years.

But I don't think it's a direct sale for the DP-01 to teams from Panoz. It seems it goes through CC and some have mentioned that CC has a leasing deal in place for 'em. I doubt that CC is going to make much of a profit off of them, if any, but it seems very likely that CC had to guarantee Panoz "X" number of car sales itself in order for Panoz to take on the project.

[NoGuts-NoGlory]

Originally Posted by indycool

John, true that Haas' markup on chassis and parts made team accountants wince for years.

...but it seems very likely that CC had to guarantee Panoz "X" number of car sales itself in order for Panoz to take on the project.

This is poppycock and nothing more than hapless negative conjecture on your part indycool. There would have been no minimum car order guarantee on the part of CC to land the deal at all. Getting the CC contract was a huge windfall for Panoz/ Elan Motorsports period and there were other Firms that would have loved to have secured the CC contract. Non the least of which was Lola! The number of cars needed to run a racing series is self evident to anyone in the business, but like the automotive industry in general, the real money and profits are generated over the long term through exclusive supply of parts necessary to sustain a racing series. Not the initial order # for rolling cars ordered.

[racinthestreets]

It is not so negative in my opinion. Do you think that Panoz and Lola would have been as eager to completely resdesign a chasis if they were not going to be the sole provider? So it is a guarntee in a way in my opinion. On the note of delivering the 35 other chasis, I remain optomisitc although Panoz was late on the first order of ten deliverred. Remember they were tentatively schedule for end of November. Happy New Year

[JohnSSC]

Well, it definitely is not poppycock that Haas added a considerable markup on the Lola parts - he always has. One of the initial concerns when this was put out to bid so to speak was that Haas would get mad and go away if he could not be "sole supplier" as he was for the old chassis. That markup paid for a lot of cigars!

I can't speak specifically to the Panoz deal but I do know that when you are asking someone to construct something as a special order, you have to guarantee them a minimum purchase. Yes, this is a good opportunity for Panoz, but they also would want to be able to recoup their fixed costs in tooling for the chassis/tub, suspension bits, body work etc. Very little of the car is going to be "off the shelf" or have any use anywhere else.

Speculating that this is the case is not being negative at all - it is just sound business. If I were a potential supplier I would want to be sure I was going to at least break even.

Don't forget, all discussion of the long term viability of the series aside, CC could decide to add suppliers or even change the car dramatically in the relative near term. There is no guarantee that Panoz will be the sole supplier in perpetuity.

[indycool]

What's "negative" about it? "Negative" for who?

The Panoz guy's quote before the cars were delivered said "subject to payment." Do you think that each team brought a check to the truck driver? They were delivered to CC HQ. CC awarded the deal and commissioned the cars solely to Panoz.

Just a business deal.

[enemy-ace]

Originally Posted by racinthestreets

On the note of delivering the 35 other chasis, I remain optomisitc although Panoz was late on the first order of ten deliverred. Remember they were tentatively schedule for end of November. Happy New Year

I would have been surprised if they were early. Anytime you start production of a new product you have to expect production issues. Especially when it is something as complex as a racing car. The car was only until recently still being developed, so new templates and production methods were still being introduced as well. Among other things. Once the first batch comes off the line the rate of production usually increases.
We'll all see our favorite teams roll off in Vegas.

[JohnSSC]

Actually it makes sense if CC is going to be leasing the cars to the teams or at least making them available for lease that the cars would be delivered to CC's headquarters. CC would contract with Panoz, pay them, then lease or sell outright to Newman/Haas or whomever. Then that income would allow them to recoup their investment.

Although it would be neat to see someone hand the driver a Cashier's Check for $200 and whatever thousand for delivery of: "Racecar, Panoz DP-01 - Quantity: One."

And yes, I agree that the production/delivery seems on track. As enemy-ace note these are complex vehicles. You just can't slap them together and sort it out later - they need to be right from the factory. As they get familiar with their own processes I am sure the subsequent batches of cars will arrive in a more rapid manner.

[luke]

Will the teams be able to put their own winglets on the cars which I think Newman/haas did? evolving the car to an extent?

[coyote9999]

That is an interesting question Luke. To what extent can modifications or additions be made?

[Leighton Irwin]

I may be wrong (not the first time) but I seem to recall that no changes would be allowed. To me that is wrong probably because I was always playing with winglets,bodywork, revising airflow ducting and other little tweaks. Some worked some didn't but it was always a challenge, especially without a wind tunnel.

[outflat]

It'll be like GP2 - you can change the setup, but only with the parts provided