1970's 2-Litre Sports cars

[chris bailey]

Guys, guys!? Finally, a thread about these fabulous cars. Thanks Andy!! The recent French book on 2 litre sports cars is a must for anyone interested in these cars. You can follow the gist of the text quite easily, even without translation. As for the pictures...!!?? Meanwhile, until I can afford that B19 Chevron, I've got hold of a '71 Royale RP6. Arguably prettier than a B16, it was produced with 2-litre racing in mind. Unfortunately, nobody appears to have used one in period which means I have nowhere to race it! That is, unless anyone can turn up some evidence to the contrary. It would add some variety to the grid if nothing else, even if I have to run it with a pushrod Ford. p.s. Don't forget the Chevron 40th celebrations at Oulton Park this weekend if you want to overdose on B19's and B16's and every other example of one man's genius. Derek Bennett, what a star!

[Andrew Kitson]

chris, hi mate and good to see this thread resurrected!
Which chassis is yours, did you say the Dutch one?
These are Royale records of sold RP6s from Alan, in the Royale book:
RP6/1 Malcolm West - UK
RP6/2 Bino Samdaco - Brazil
RP6/3 Bino Samdaco - Brazil
RP6/4 Bill Scott - USA
RP6/5 David Schuster - USA
RP6/6 Marc Terrior - Belgium
RP6/7 Herbert Hartge - Germany
RP6/8 Arthur Banting - Holland
RP6/9 G Morand - Switzerland

Book says designed by Bob Marston, an uprated version of the RP4 to take 2-litre engines, price new with g/box less engine £2600.
Very pretty, the nicest looking Royale(?) here seen testing at Brands in 1970.

[John Turner]

Yes, a pretty car; it looks a bit like a mini Canam Mclaren, but nothing is as pretty as a B16, surely?

This thread, started before I even joined 10-tenths, reminded me of the 1971 Martini International at Silverstone, which I think was the only race, in period, with these 2 -litre Gp 6 cars in, that I attended. If I find the time, I might dig out my programme and list the entries for the race, if anyone is interested - some very fine drivers including a few legends, as I recall. These cars certainly attracted some class entries.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally Posted by John Turner

but nothing is as pretty as a B16, surely?

For me difficult to choose the best ever looking between a B16, 330 P4 or F3L. They really knew how to make good looking cars then eh? Compared to the cars competing at the front at Le Mans now!

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by chris bailey

I've got hold of a '71 Royale RP6. Arguably prettier than a B16, it was produced with 2-litre racing in mind. Unfortunately, nobody appears to have used one in period which means I have nowhere to race it! That is, unless anyone can turn up some evidence to the contrary. It would add some variety to the grid if nothing else, even if I have to run it with a pushrod Ford. p.s.

John Tait appers to have entered a Royale RP6 in the Ford Anglia Television Trophy, Snetterton 1972, the last race of the RAC 2 litre series if that helps.

Very pretty looking car, love the 2 litre sports cars of the that era.

[Andrew Kitson]

Yes he did, but not the 'Ford' Anglia trophy, simply the 'Anglia Television' British sports car championship race. I remember that RP6 now - finished in orange I recall, but with a 1300cc motor, not 2-litre according to the entry list.

[Dan Rear]

With Oulton in mind, how many 'Johns' can we recall who drove B19s. OTOH I have, Hine, Lepp, Bridges, Miles, Burton. Sure I've missed at least one, perhaps others.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

With Oulton in mind, how many 'Johns' can we recall who drove B19s. OTOH I have, Hine, Lepp, Bridges, Miles, Burton. Sure I've missed at least one, perhaps others.

Add Bamford and Gray, sure to be others!

[davemorganfan]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Yes, a pretty car; it looks a bit like a mini Canam Mclaren, but nothing is as pretty as a B16, surely?

This thread, started before I even joined 10-tenths, reminded me of the 1971 Martini International at Silverstone, which I think was the only race, in period, with these 2 -litre Gp 6 cars in, that I attended. If I find the time, I might dig out my programme and list the entries for the race, if anyone is interested - some very fine drivers including a few legends, as I recall. These cars certainly attracted some class entries.

Was that the race in which Ronnie Peterson drove a Lola T212 in his usual spectacular fashion? I saw it on TV and for some reason I can't recall, Ronnie had to drive his way through the rest of the field.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

For me difficult to choose the best ever looking between a B16, 330 P4 or F3L. They really knew how to make good looking cars then eh? Compared to the cars competing at the front at Le Mans now!

Yes, the P4, absolutely stunning! The F3L is also fantastic, although I would probably describe it as dramatic rather than pretty. I always rated the T70 (coupe version) too, a bit like big B16 - actually probably the other way round since I think the bigger car came first. The mid to late 60's produced some fabulous looking cars. I could also start on the early 60's front engined GTs, but that is for another thread!

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

With Oulton in mind, how many 'Johns' can we recall who drove B19s. OTOH I have, Hine, Lepp, Bridges, Miles, Burton. Sure I've missed at least one, perhaps others.

Also John Bamford.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by chris bailey

even if I have to run it with a pushrod Ford

Eduardo Celidônio raced a Royale - Alfa Romeo 1600 in the 500km of interlagos 1971.This may have been an RP6, 2 did go to brazil, and if so was it the cars best result? it finished 3rd overall behind a Porsche 908 and 910.

An Alfa may be different, if not cheap option!

http://www.brazilianlists.com/1971.html

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by davemorganfan

Was that the race in which Ronnie Peterson drove a Lola T212 in his usual spectacular fashion? I saw it on TV and for some reason I can't recall, Ronnie had to drive his way through the rest of the field.

Ronnie was certainly there. Ok, the full entry list although I don't know whether all started; I certainly remember it was a very large grid!

Lola 212 - Jo Bonnier, Vic Elford, Silvio Moser, Karl Von Wendt, Helmut Marko, Guy Edwards, Jeremy Lord, Ronnie Peterson, Jo Siffert

Chevron B19 - Chris Craft, Ed Swart, John Burton, John Bamford, John Bridges, John Hine, John Miles, John Lepp, Toine Hezemans, Peter Humble

Fiat Abarth - Tino Brambilla, Arturo Merzario

Martin BM8 - Brian Martin, Peter Gaydon

Lola T210 - Terry Croker, Claude Sweitlik, David Farnell

Gropa - George Whitehead, Tony Beeson

Daren Mk3 - Alan Rollinson

Chevron Redex - RPA - Tony Goodwin

Mercury - Alan Fowler

Taydel - Peter Hanson

All the above had FVC engines apart from the Daren (Lotus), Tony Besson's Gropa (BDA), the Chevron Redex (BMW) and more obviously the Fiat Abarths

Then there were the Group 5 Sportscars although accordiing to the programme, one of the B8s (Peter Smith) was entered in the above Gp6 class but I note that his had an FVC whereas all the other B8s had BMW engines. The B16s were all FVC powered:-

Chevron B16 - Trevor Twaites, Adrian Wilkins, Brian Robinson, Andrew Fletcher, Ken Walker

Chevron B8 - Peter Smith, Tony Birchenhough, Tony Evangelisti, Brian Muir

I have excluded the reserves, although one or two may have got drives for obvious reasons. The race was in two parts, each of 40 laps, and if I recall, Toine Hezemans won impressively on aggregate in this high class field. I recall thinking how fast these little 2 litre cars were, although I must confess that I cannot recall much of the race detail - it was 34 years ago! In hindsight though, you would have to say that this had to be one of the best driver grids of the time, outside F1. If I can find Autosport's race report, I'll furnish more detail.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Also John Bamford.

Sorry Andrew; just realised you beat me to it. I was too quick on the button and I had the Martini programme sitting in front of me!

[Andrew Kitson]

No worries John, look forward to your early 60s front engined GT thread! Goodwood TT here we come...

[John Turner]

Yes, I'll be there, never missed it yet. I would really like to see Project 212 win it, but the only chance it has had so far was when Brundle stuck it on pole only to see Pearson prang it badly in practice. Might never happen now, especially as car has changed hands.

[chris bailey]

Originally Posted by Nordic

Eduardo Celidônio raced a Royale - Alfa Romeo 1600 in the 500km of interlagos 1971.This may have been an RP6, 2 did go to brazil, and if so was it the cars best result? it finished 3rd overall behind a Porsche 908 and 910.

An Alfa may be different, if not cheap option!

http://www.brazilianlists.com/1971.html

Aha! My quest bears fruit at last! Thanks for the lead Nordic. The interesting thing about RP6's was that they were never supplied with engines from the factory, unless the customer supplied one. The Alfa solution would be a good one to go with. So who knows anything else about Eduardo Celidonio and his RP6? Also, if there's a programme for the 500km de Interlagos in 1971 kicking around, it might tell me whether the race ran under an International permit?
Meantime, I agree that the car looks more M6 Mclaren than B16 Chevron. It looks even shapelier in the flesh. Perhaps I should paint mine McLaren orange?
Also, in the 12 hours de Interlagos in the same year, a Royale Ford 1600 finished 3rd. This is probably the other RP6 that was shipped out in '70. The original Royale job sheets list them with Ford 1600 engines and left-hand drive! The 12 hour race was a round of the Brazilian Sports Car Championship (CBVE), if my interpretation is correct. Finally, Bob Marston, the car's designer, is a friend from years ago. He's promised to be the de facto race engineer if I ever get the thing near a track.

[simon drabble]

Surely 12 Hrs de Interlagos is an internional meeting (and therefore enable you to get FIA papers presumably).. problem is that you would have to run 1600 against everyone else's 2000

[Nordic]

Chris, I would suggest you contact the guy that looks after the web page, his contact email can be found at the bottom of the results page, (carlos depaula).

He may be able to tell you some more about this: Divisão 4, Marcos Troncon – Royale Chevrolet (classe A) car that raced in the 500K Interlagos 1974. No idea if it was a RP6, but a chevy engine could be interesting! (Troncon was a SuperVee driver of some note in Brazil)

[chris bailey]

Thanks Nordic and Simon! A Chevy in an RP6!!? I reckon engine and car would be in two different places after the first hour. Mind you, I'll look into it. As for running 1600 against 2 litres, I don't mind. At the end of the day, this is a way of being on the grid, not winning races. Winning entails spending £70,000 plus on a B19 or Lola T210/212 with a BDG, which I don't have. Besides, I'm sure I can give some of the Gentleman Drivers a bit of a fright, if the RP6 is properly screwed together (which it will be)! Meanwhile, any more leads are more than welcome....?

[Mackmot]

John Crowson has an Abarth Osella PA1 which had a straight 6 engine in which we rebuilt with a straight 4 engine. The straight 4 engine came out of a slightly later PA1 which John also owns which was meant to have a straight 6 engine. It also turns out each one has the exact engine the other originally had. Which I think is a really cool coincidence. Unfortunately I dont think he was run these cars in anger as the engines are so rare and so expensive to rebuild that its better just to preserve them and do a few demo runs. Very pretty cars


We also have a Huron 4a in the workshop which I posted about a few weeks ago which unfortunately has a BDG rather than an FVC which its meant to have for a lot of series. I think John Hanline and Roger Kilty, who own the car, are thinking about getting the correct engine so hopefully we will see that running next season. Its a pretty ugly car though, looks like a duck.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by chris bailey

The recent French book on 2 litre sports cars is a must for anyone interested in these cars. You can follow the gist of the text quite easily, even without translation. As for the pictures...!!??

What is the title of the French book, I think I must have a copy! This is a great thread, with some great photos. I had not heard of a couple of the cars mentioned. Great stuff!

robert

[simon drabble]

You wont be able to run it in the Gentlemen Drivers as it is passed the cutoff date - you would be able to run it in the Worldsportscar Masters series (subject to FIA papers for both series), but again if you are running a 1600 you are going to be struggling to be competitive..

[chris bailey]

Originally Posted by skycafe

What is the title of the French book, I think I must have a copy! This is a great thread, with some great photos. I had not heard of a couple of the cars mentioned. Great stuff!

robert

Hello Robert!

The book is "Championnat D'Europe des Sport-Protos 2 Litres 1970-1975" A catchy title, if ever there was one!! The author is Christian Naviaux and it is published by Editions du Palmier. See www.editions-palmier.fr. The ISBN number is 2-914920-39-3. Anyone with the faintest interest in 2-litre Sports Racing Cars of the 70's needs this book in their collection. It will even improve your French, as you now have a reason to understand it.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by chris bailey

It will even improve your French, as you now have a reason to understand it.

Reading racing magazines in english while in French class did not improve my French comprehension one iota, so perhaps you are correct, French language book about great sports cars may well indeed improve my French! If only my teachers had known that might work