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Old Yesterday, 23:15 (Ref:3831517)   #1966
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
They thing is the ‘problem’ with this is on Radio Le Mans and the internet. It strikes me that everyone involved is perfectly happy. They win. Miserable people lose. Hurrah!
“Good” race, “classic” race, “great” race … all wholly subjective.

Anyone who watched this race for 24 hours and is now complaining about the outcome is an idiot … sorry to be rude, but not sorry to be honest.

None of us were sure whether/if Toyota would employ its normal corporate strategy of spending big bucks and making intricate preparations and then failing painfully. But I think Most of us expected that if Toyota finished, it would be the #8 in front, one way or another.

Oh, Noes!! There is both politics and marketing in racing. Oh, no! The loss of purity, the loss of innocence … the Complete Disconnect From Reality of all the people making that idiotic and disingenuous argument.

This year’s race wasn’t as rules-controlled and contrived as some others have been. The maximum laps thing is complete BS, and not penalizing a car for spinning its wheels with an electric motor while having a penalty for an ICE …. Like my fingers would regrow if they were torn off by a hybrid-powered wheel?

But … stupid as I am, I enjoyed the race.

Toyota got rid of most of its liability drivers, and got lucky with ACO screw-ups (for people forgetting Spa 2018, Toyota was repeatedly forced to pit because an ACO-supplied part failed repeatedly … same thing cost them Le Mans in 2014, I believe?)

I’d say the quote I opened with explains the phenomenon we see here: People who are miserable human beings who haven’t learned how to suck out the sweet and spit out the bitter in their personal life (we call them “losers” in the vernacular) are all waiting to pounce, all waiting for something to crap on so they can climb to the top of the crap pile and say, “I am King!”

Some folks haven’t realized you cannot elevate yourself by depressing everything else—you just have to be the same unhappy person in a crappy environment.

Politics and marketing? Never in Racing!

It’s funny … ACO created rules specifically for Peugeot and Audi (possibly because both firms pledged endless dollars and long-term commitment to the series when it needed it? Perhaps) which highlighted the “clean diesel” tech they wanted to promote in European showrooms (great how That worked out …. ) but not a lot of people complained because the cars were amazing.

Nobody complained Last year when the same rules as this year were in place ….

But this year, cars which ran at a pace which would have made them competitive against Any of the last few years’ hybrid P1s … won a “hollow” victory. Okay.

“Hollow” victory?

I have to say this … if Toyota had trundled around just one lap ahead of the nearest privateer, obviously making no effort to actually race, playing it 100 percent safe and just looking to win by whatever means …. That would have kind of sucked. Still would have been a real win, and would have been a sensible strategy, but it would have hurt my spirit a little.

Toyota could even have let one car run and have the other walk, to provide a back-up.

But I didn’t see Toyota sandbagging. I saw Toyota running at race pace for 24 hours. I saw Toyota treat every lap as a lap on which to compete to get the lead and increase the lead.

I watched the onboards of Alonso’s night stints … he is a Very Good Driver, it seems to me (admitting I am almost wholly ignorant.) But all the Toyota drivers went quickly and drove cleanly.

The cars didn’t break. They got lucky enough not to be taken out by accidents. They fired Nicolas Lapierre. (Sorry, that was kind of mean, but pretty much earned.)

We all know there are “Glass half full” people … and some of them can go to extremes, but not many. There are also “No matter how full the glass, I hate the contents, and the glass, and glasses in general, and glass as a material for beverage containers, and everything else (and particularly myself, but I refuse to realize that)” types.

I will only see so many Le Mans 24s in my lifetime … and that number is one smaller today. But I look at the hours I spent watching it, watching qualifying, reading about the race, being displeased (or disgusted) by the rules … as time well spent.

It was my life, I spent that part doing that thing. I take responsibility for that. And on balance … I think my life is a little better for it.

Any fool who wasted all that time and now thinks his or her life is worse off for it … I am saddened and amused together.

“Racing has Politics??? Racing is used for Marketing??? When did this start?” Back well before any of us were born so none of us have any excuse to be ignorant of the obvious facts.

I feel blessed that politics and marketing did so little to alter the outcome of this race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan View Post
The best team with the best car won. That's what competition is supposed to be about. That is how racing should be.

It's also awesome when a team with a slower car manages to snatch a victory through better strategy, teamwork or just pure perseverance.

With modern racing, the organizers are so worried about having multiple cars capable of winning, that they are making racing artificial. It's becoming just another form of entertainment instead of a sport.
I see this as true … all three propositions.

Toyota brought the best, and performed the best (how many other teams had so few issues?) I do not hate a meritocracy.

All the teams knew the rules. All the teams decided to compete, prepared for the event, and competed.

The fastest car with the best crew won the race? It must be rigged!

I am a Big Rebellion fan (and funny, no one called them “hollow victories” when they beat all the P1 privateers … by which I mean ByKolles, the Car which is also a Tiki Torch-- in earlier seasons.) I would have loved to see Rebellion do better. But there is that pesky thing, reality, and unscripted events … stuff happens.

As for “racetainment” …. IMSA even admitted they are creating sport-based entertainment.

I spoke almost accidentally with Scott Atherton and Scot Elkins at a Sebring test day right after the merger, and they were absolutely clear—they wanted Zero development by teams.

They wanted Everything locked down, roped in, fenced off, homologated …. Exactly so every team could have a chance to win (supposedly) and so no one would innovate in such a way as to **** off any of the big sponsors (say, Cadillac.)

The idea of “racing improves the breed” was not even sneered at, it was abandoned. “Build a better mousetrap” was banned by the rules. They wanted spec racing with just enough variety to not anger the fans, but not enough that anyone could actually do anything not approved in advance by the sponsors’ committee.

I know there has always been politics in racing (Ferrari pulled out of one season (the last race, in fact) because (opposite of what Toyota did) he sank a world championship by withdrawing—to keep the Cobra from winning the World GT championship.)

I know there have always been teams trying to find an unfair advantage or loophole, and the rules have gotten tighter because of it.

I know (well, I don’t Know) … but somehow only Ford and Ferrari were competitive for Ford’s anniversary win … (just by chance.)

BoP and EoT is pretty much S of B … not Entirely arbitrary of political, but seriously, if they want to balance the cars, they need to have an independent team of test drivers do the testing, not the teams, which obviously gain by sandbagging.

No matter.

This is what we have. It isn’t what we all wish for, but likely that “halcyon era of yore” when everything was how we imagine it should be is also wholly imaginary.

What we had this year was this year’s race.

Toyota ran really fast and won. Alonso drove really well and picked up the second leg of his Triple Crown. Porsche painted two cars in really striking liveries and they topped the class. A lot of drivers seemed to make a lot of driving errors and create a lot of slow zones … but nobody was severely hurt or killed.

It was an endurance race. People ran fast, and either lasted or broke, either repaired it of parked it. The Russians (the BR1s) made a brave showing. Ginetta Almost made to the end—they deserve some special mention. Rusinov and G-Drive did what he has always done but without that one error which always kept him off the top step at Le Mans.

You guys had something better to do and didn’t?

Hah … losers.

I enjoyed the race.

Last edited by Maelochs; Yesterday at 23:23.
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Old Today, 00:05 (Ref:3831518)   #1967
Articus
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Articus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by porsche962fan View Post
no 8 straight to museum I guess complete with dirt
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Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life View Post
I didnt watch much of the race,my sister graduated from ucla.which is a 6 hour drive,i watched the first two hours while driving on my wifes iphone.then i watched 6 hours at a viewing party at the petersen museum in los angeles.that was fun,and was nice to be around other knowledge fans.then i caught the last 6 hours at the hotel.

At first i was annoyed by toyota and the aco with the eot,basically giving the win to toyota.then i realized le mans is a race where you not only need to beat the competition,but the track itself.once they crossed the finish line i was happy for them, they deserve it after all their privious struggles,attempts, and comming so close.its not their fault other brands left and no one was willing to come in.it was also nice to see the 8 car win,i can care less about alonso, but nice to see nakajima and bumi get a win after sticking with toyota for that long.good job guys.

Gte pro was were i was left disappointed, the field was stacked with top drivers and factories. But the aco went and ruined it with the bop, and wosre with the 14 lap mandated stints for everyone. It ruined any startegy for any one to try to get ahead, especially after the safety car.it felt fake like something imsa would do to gutantee porsche thewin.

The track is stll great and the cars still look damn good, hope I can make it there some day.
Did you really think GTE BOP was off? In my eyes, the only thing that ruined GTE was the first and second safety cars. Most of the other GTE teams said the same thing. Ferrari felt they had pace in the night. Ford thought they would have won it. BMW was the quickest car on the track going into the night. The stints from Felix and Catsburg were mega. This is the first time inn quite a few years where every car had the pace to win it. Last year was the Aston, Corvette show. The year before that was the Ford GT benefit...The safety cars gave the 92 an insurmountable 2 minute lead which held steady, not increasing or decreasing. The race showed that the other Porsche's could be raced and passed if you found yourself on track near one.

Unlike Daytona where the Fords lapped the entire field on raw pace in a series where safety cars actually make it very hard to put a gap on your rivals....The Porsche's didn't come anywhere that kind of gifted BOP domination.

The Rothmans car is where the Porsche's would have ended up without the help of the safety car. And the Fords, Corvette's, BMW, Ferrari's ran within 30 seconds of that car for most of the race. Bourdais even passed the 91 late albeit for naught. Everyone lapped in the 3:52s and 3:51s at will. I've never seen it so close.


Was amusing to see Bourdais complaining about the BOP after the Daytona farce....Ford seem to always think the BOP is wrong unless they can lap the field.

Last edited by Articus; Today at 00:11.
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Old Today, 01:32 (Ref:3831524)   #1968
EffectiveSprinkles
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I had a good time, caught about 19 hours in total I think. Much more enjoyable than last year except those last hour shenanigans, but whatever. Toyota did an amazing job, the car was perfect and ran hard for the entire race without any issue. The only mistakes came from the drivers. Really happy to see that they won, and the 8 car was the fastest car on the day so they deserved it.
Looking forward to next year already
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Old Today, 02:29 (Ref:3831533)   #1969
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rich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I was thrilled to see the #77 win GTE AM as Iím a Matt Campbell fan. That my best memory of the race. Happy for Toyota also because despite all the EOT etc they still had to finish the race in first and they did just that. Shame Buemi and Nakajima will get overlooked in the mainstream press but Alonso seemed to genuinely enjoy the event and drive very well so good on him.

Donít get me started on BOP in GTE and the politics played in race week. Had enough. It really does put a bad light on such a quality packed class.
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Old Today, 05:51 (Ref:3831551)   #1970
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life View Post
I didnt watch much of the race,my sister graduated from ucla.which is a 6 hour drive,i watched the first two hours while driving on my wifes iphone.then i watched 6 hours at a viewing party at the petersen museum in los angeles.that was fun,and was nice to be around other knowledge fans.then i caught the last 6 hours at the hotel.

At first i was annoyed by toyota and the aco with the eot,basically giving the win to toyota.then i realized le mans is a race where you not only need to beat the competition,but the track itself.once they crossed the finish line i was happy for them, they deserve it after all their privious struggles,attempts, and comming so close.its not their fault other brands left and no one was willing to come in.it was also nice to see the 8 car win,i can care less about alonso, but nice to see nakajima and bumi get a win after sticking with toyota for that long.good job guys.

Gte pro was were i was left disappointed, the field was stacked with top drivers and factories. But the aco went and ruined it with the bop, and wosre with the 14 lap mandated stints for everyone. It ruined any startegy for any one to try to get ahead, especially after the safety car.it felt fake like something imsa would do to gutantee porsche thewin.

The track is stll great and the cars still look damn good, hope I can make it there some day.
I HATE the BoP formula, but the cars were quite well balanced. Having a good "balance of performance" does not mean that Ford gets to be quicker than the others. In fact, through much of the race (once the weather got warmer), the Ford lap times were quicker than the Porsche.
Anyway, for those that were unhappy with the Porsche victory you just need to wait for next year. Porsche will get Bop'ed so badly that it will be quicker for them to walk around the track.
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