[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

agree, lmp1 use so advanced technologies for aero and mechanical gears with some f1 ispired solution too like 2013 r18 that simply can't be applied in road cars. Just like audi used to do, porsche statement is another fox and grapes virtuosism. I read this: we have enough technical know how and money to jump in f1 but we are scared to throw away money for years as toyota did in almost 10 years.

We can say the same for Ferrari. We have won in formula 1, so we may win in Le Mans, too.
Ok, come here and show it! If you don't...
The fox and the grape (Part II)...

[zanfo zanfagni]

Originally Posted by Dario911

No, sorry. Porsche has never been really attracted by Formula 1, so I would like to understand why it should decide to run in F1 instead of Le Mans, where it has written its history...
Mmmh... Ferrari withdrawn from Le Mans after it was defeated by Ford, Porsche and Matra. I can say the same. Ferrari doesn't come to Le Mans because it's not capable to win there.
My cousin says if you win in Formula 1, you can win everywhere.
Ooops! My cousin's 12 years old!

opinions, opinions. Ferrari doesn't want to come to le mans because is already in f1 and doesn't care about other competitions. If ferrari would be competitive or not in wec nobody will know. My opinions of porsche f1 intentions have been expressed in the post above.

[zanfo zanfagni]

audi and porsche talked about f1 interest in the past, in a more or less enthusiastic way = fox and grapes.
Ferrari talked about le mans only in 2009, no clear intention/wish to join but just to put some pressure to ecclestone = no fox and grapes.
Fear of ferrari to enter in wec is just a speculation of yours.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

[...] as toyota did in almost 10 years.

It is clear you don't know how Porsche or Audi work and... how Toyota works.
The only field formula 1 is the queen of motorsport is advertising and TV coverage.
Are you italian? Italians (except for me and some other few people...) are really convinced formula 1 is the best of the best. Why? Because Ferrari's there (but are the flying cans to win...).

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

audi and porsche talked about f1 interest in the past, in a more or less enthusiastic way = fox and grapes.
Ferrari talked about le mans only in 2009, no clear intention/wish to join but just to put some pressure to ecclestone = no fox and grapes.
Fear of ferrari to enter in wec is just a speculation of yours.

I remember when Montezemolo talked about the return of Ferrari in Le Mans with a P1, few years ago = the fox and the grape.
He was enthusiast, but then...???
He was in Le Mans, too. But then...???
You make me smile when you compare Audi or Porsche to the fox, forgetting Ferrari is at least as fox as the german manufacturers.
Ok, you're italian.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

If you look at viewing figures and even now attendances I think now Italians find the pinnacle of motorsport to be on two wheels and not four and their national motorsports hero to not be scarlet red cars or Schumi/Alonso but instead Valentino Rossi...

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

opinions, opinions. Ferrari doesn't want to come to le mans because is already in f1 and doesn't care about other competitions. If ferrari would be competitive or not in wec nobody will know. My opinions of porsche f1 intentions have been expressed in the post above.

Opinios, opinions. Are not yours opinions, too?

[zanfo zanfagni]

If you read one of my previous post, I said that for a manufacturer is better to run in F1 than WEC, because F1 has the best TV and media coverage. Porsche's statement is suspicious because like f1, lmp1 too use technologies that can't be transfered to road cars as they suggest.
I do not know how audi and porsche work, do you work as engineers for them? if not I do not think you may know it better than me and all the other users here then. I'm tired of this vain discussion, I can live peacefully in a world without ferrari in wec and without porsche in F1.

[GT6]

It is always a mystery to me why people either loath or love ferrari, to me there are nicer looking cars and more reliable cars and faster cars. F1 sells ferrari cloths, flags toys etc but does it actually sell cars, that is debatable however the GT cars at sports car races do look like road cars and the fans at the track seem to own quite a few, unlike at F1 races where the fans are mostly corporate guests and probably don't drive much themselves anyway

[zanfo zanfagni]

I love ferrari's, cavallino rampante gives me a magic sensation that none other car is able to do. A bit because of this sensation and a bit because of ferrari great history and palmares I simply fall in love when i see one. Is pure love, what can i do?

I like other cars as well, but to like is different from to love.

[GT6]

For italian cars i would rather have a Lambo, they look better, sound better and have an image that says enthusiast rather than corporate toy

[zanfo zanfagni]

I like lamborghini's too, but give me a strange feeling. As James May said while he was driving a countach, Lamborghini cars need to be massive and louder to attract people, while ferrari's grace is just enough to do the same.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by GT6

and the fans at the track seem to own quite a few, unlike at F1 races where the fans are mostly corporate guests and probably don't drive much themselves anyway

Nice generalization. Google pics "monza ferrari fans" or something like that. Difference is may be that these are more fans of the sport team (=Scuderia Ferrari), comparable to football fans for example. (Provocation) Who is more of a real fan, some Average Giancarlo that goes to see races or a rich Enzo owner?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

I bet all these people are corporate guests and own Halliburton stocks.

[GT6]

I have my suspicion that those photo's were not taken at Silverstone, yes there are ferrari fans but those pictures seem to bring motor sport down to the level of football with people blindly following there "Team" sports car racing has always been different with true fans support changing as teams and drivers change and as has happened to me on many occasions sometimes ending up cheering for cars that a few hours before we did not support. Please please can we all try to make sure that sports car racing does not follow the direction of tribal sports.

[vincegail]

My guess is you've never been to the Monza F1 race. It's not a football/tribal/fling of the moment thing for the tifosi, it's a lifestyle. Hats off for their dedication.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by GT6

I have my suspicion that those photo's were not taken at Silverstone, yes there are ferrari fans but those pictures seem to bring motor sport down to the level of football with people blindly following there "Team" sports car racing has always been different with true fans support changing as teams and drivers change and as has happened to me on many occasions sometimes ending up cheering for cars that a few hours before we did not support. Please please can we all try to make sure that sports car racing does not follow the direction of tribal sports.

Originally Posted by vincegail

My guess is you've never been to the Monza F1 race. It's not a football/tribal/fling of the moment thing for the tifosi, it's a lifestyle. Hats off for their dedication.

Hmm, Dangerous discussion topic here.

Perhaps we should just get back to the Porsche topic?

[vincegail]

Back to Porsche is indeed the right thing to do.

[GT6]

Well I am a sports car fan I love this sport and I hope to god that it stays the way it always has been without the blind addiction to one team or make, I follow the sport not one make, if it goes the way of football then it will lose me and I suspect many others, several years ago I remember the massive cheer the fans gave to the Ford GT as it managed a podium place against all the odds or the lonely mazda when it won to massive cheers even from the mass jaguar fans along the pit straights it is that spirit that I love and if it is replaced by mindless hoards who only follow one thing then it will be lost as a real sport, IMHO.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

I love ferrari's, cavallino rampante gives me a magic sensation that none other car is able to do. A bit because of this sensation and a bit because of ferrari great history and palmares I simply fall in love when i see one. Is pure love, what can i do?

I like other cars as well, but to like is different from to love.

I love Porsche due to its performances, driving sensations, design, reliability, racing palmares. I think Porsche gives you something other cars can't make you feel. The noise of a 911 is pure music, and when you drive a Porsche you feel the distilled of all its more than 28.000 wins in all motorsports classes and competitions. No other manufacturer can give you the same feeling. Porsche is pure passion.
I like other cars, but as you've said, love is a different story. And you can only have one love.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

I like lamborghini's too, but give me a strange feeling. As James May said while he was driving a countach, Lamborghini cars need to be massive and louder to attract people, while ferrari's grace is just enough to do the same.

Lamborghini was born to be massive, louder, aggressive and hot. It's not just to beat Ferrari, but it's Lamborghini way of life. Lambo is capable to make Ferrari invisible.
James May... english humor!

[Mal]

Originally Posted by GT6

For italian cars i would rather have a Lambo, they look better, sound better and have an image that says enthusiast rather than corporate toy

That is actually the opposite to the reality from my experience.

[zanfo zanfagni]

Nothing can make invisible a true myth. Ferrari cars shine brightly even inside a dark room. When lamborghini main activty was farm tractors and Ferdinand Porsche was projecting the first beetle, Ferrari was already a sportscar producer. History. You may like or not, but when you see a ferrari put your hat off, because you are not watching only a car, but one of the most important page of the automotive history and that deserves respect.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

Nothing can make invisible a true myth. Ferrari cars shine brightly even inside a dark room. When lamborghini main activty was farm tractors and Ferdinand Porsche was projecting the first beetle, Ferrari was already a sportscar producer. History. You may like or not, but when you see a ferrari put your hat off, because you are not watching only a car, but one of the most important page of the automotive history and that deserves respect.

I think the thread below is the place for marque fanatics to post their versions of the truth. Especially regarding to Porsche vs. Ferrari...

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103894

Any remote chance this thread can get back on topic?

Richard

[Spyderman]

Indeed, ands that's why Fedinand Porsche said the following:
"I couldn't find the sports car of my dreams, so I built it myself ".
Ferdinand Porsche.