Should Button have been penalised for RB Pit Stop?

[bravo]

Indeed it can be dangerous - but there are rules in place to stop the kind of danger that Jaime's wheel posed - it should not have been able to come off.

As for the other car stopping in RBR's spot - I believe it was Buemi at Aubai Daubi in 2009. Video/Photo confirmation anyone?

[Knowlesy]

An eye test, not a penalty.

EDIT - just seen garcons post.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by bravo

Indeed it can be dangerous - but there are rules in place to stop the kind of danger that Jaime's wheel posed - it should not have been able to come off.

That's my point. Reasonable precautions are taken to ensure safety, but sometimes bad stuff happens, because motorsport is an inherently dangerous activity. You can only go so far with the 'What ifs' before you get to 'What if we just knocked it on the head and stayed at home?'

[Marbot]

Never even received a warning for compromising not only his race, but that of his team mate as well. Tut.

I don't think that you're likely to get a penalty for giving all of your competitors an advantage. Fortunately for Jenson, McLaren didn't see fit to go to the stewards because Lewis's pit strategy had been compromised.

Autosport:

McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh revealed that Jenson Button's mistake during his first stop - when the Briton stopped in Red Bull's pit slot - was most costly than initially thought.

Whitmarsh also said Button should have stopped a lap earlier, something that cost him and Hamilton valuable time.

"It cost Jenson position and it cost him time," said Whitmarsh. "Within the stop itself it cost over two seconds and it cost a position, the fact that he stopped a lap later than he should have done as well cost him time, and it cost Lewis time and it cost Lewis track position as well, in that last lap was when Massa got by and he should have stopped by then.

"It was pretty calamitous, simple way of looking at it, we were first and second and we were whatever fifth and sixth [actually seventh] after the first stops, so at that point we knew we had to do something different. That partly prompted the view that we had to change strategy. In the end, that would be the right way to go."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90873

Although, you could say (having read that quote) that Button's mistake won Lewis the race.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

It would've been brilliant if they'd actually changed his tyres.

That's what I thought when I saw it happening...

[Marbot]

It would have certainly been the end of both Vettel and Button's races.

[Adam43]

Where there is a blame there is a claim!

I thought there were two good aspects to this. First the FIA didn't penalise something that was just a mistake and made no difference. Sensible use of penalties. Hurrah. Secondly, Red Bull didn't whinge and try and make more of something that they benefited from anyway. Sensible none persecuting attitude. Hurrah.

Oh there is a third good thing. It made me laugh.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Adam43

First the FIA didn't penalise something that was just a mistake and made no difference.

Well, it did prompt McLaren into using what was to be a race winning strategy. But the FIA weren't to know that at the time.

Originally Posted by Adam43

Sensible use of penalties.

Not sure that any rule was actually broken that could have had a penalty applied to it. Didn't even warrant a warning.

Originally Posted by Adam43

Oh there is a third good thing. It made me laugh.

Oh, it was funny.

[Steve Milward]

He didn't break any rules or regulations and there was no danger to the Red Bull crew as they expected it anyway.

However in the post race BBC F1 Forum Jake and DC interviewed a Red Bull mechanic on a very ad-hoc basis in their garage. He said with a straight face that he thought it JB's stop in the Red Bull box was deliberate to try and disrupt the crew expecting Vettel.

Afterwards DC said 'I hope he was joking I wasn't expecting that reply'. We never did find out if he was serious..

So could it have been a bit of brinkmanship by JB

[Adam43]

Marbot, with that post where you comment on each part I am concerned that you missed what I was really getting at.

1. Vettel got the position from Button. Button was coming in anyway. It made no real difference apart from seemingly effecting Button's stop more than Vettel.
2. I meant "sensible non-use of a penalty". There is a perception that the stewards could have used a rule to come up with something. Or perhaps I was relieved there wasn't a specific rule. Whatever, my point was that I was pleased there was no penalty.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Adam43

1. Vettel got the position from Button. Button was coming in anyway. It made no real difference apart from seemingly effecting Button's stop more than Vettel.

Agree with that. Although there does seem to be a feeling at Red Bull that the whole thing worked out better for McLaren because of that incident (Button and Hamilton lost track position prompting strategy change). But you have to look at the incident in isolation, I guess.

Originally Posted by Adam43

2. I meant "sensible non-use of a penalty". There is a perception that the stewards could have used a rule to come up with something. Or perhaps I was relieved there wasn't a specific rule. Whatever, my point was that I was pleased there was no penalty.

I too was pleased that there was no penalty. Maybe Button will get a good 'ribbing' at the next drivers meeting? He's probably glad that there's a big gap between now and the next one.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

It would've been brilliant if they'd actually changed his tyres.

Maybe they can include that in next season's rules; each team changes the tyres of the team that's behind them in pit-road.

[newlaprecord]

Button kinda drove thru their pit, Alquesqari (I know worst spelling ever probably) did actually stop in the wrong pit and still received no penalty, so it's only fair not to hand out anything for it.

It was certainly a fumbler of a move but to Button's credit, I didnt see the Mclaren lolly-pop guy out in the pitlane. In a hundred million pound team , not sending out someone with a 20p stick to mark where the crew is, is certainly the team's fault as well.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Agree with that. Although there does seem to be a feeling at Red Bull that the whole thing worked out better for McLaren because of that incident (Button and Hamilton lost track position prompting strategy change). But you have to look at the incident in isolation, I guess.

I can see it now. RB are going to complain to the stewards because Mclaren are obviously employing a psychic to see in to the future - and that is obviously against the rules. Probably.

Or just perhaps it was a cock up on JB's part.

We should be told!

On the other hand, since this incident prompted a change in strategy that won them the race, perhaps they were on the wrong strategy to start with. Damn. Still need the psychic though.

This 20-20 hindsight's a biatch.

[csirl]

I cant help thinking that if Alonso went into a McLaren pit in similar circumstances, most of the users of this forum would be calling for him to be penalised, banned, suspended or worse etc. etc.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by csirl

I cant help thinking that if Alonso went into a McLaren pit in similar circumstances, most of the users of this forum would be calling for him to be penalised, banned, suspended or worse etc. etc.

I don't think they would be.


Its a mistake that proves he's human

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by csirl

I cant help thinking that if Alonso went into a McLaren pit in similar circumstances, most of the users of this forum would be calling for him to be penalised, banned, suspended or worse etc. etc.

He'd get a hell of a lot of stick but I doubt there'd be calls for him to be penalised. I said on the chat at the time that I was glad it wasn't Webber or Hamilton who'd done it, because this place would erupt!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by csirl

I cant help thinking that if Alonso went into a McLaren pit in similar circumstances, most of the users of this forum would be calling for him to be penalised, banned, suspended or worse etc. etc.

With the current situation of their car, that would be hilarious !

[gregc]

Andy Blackmore has just posted this on Facebook (with permission to repost) - genius...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gregc

Andy Blackmore has just posted this on Facebook (with permission to repost) - genius...

Has he sent a copy to Jenson?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by racer69

Mark Skaife did a similiar thing in the 2005 Bathurst 1000, stopped in the pit bay before his. He went on to win the race, there was never even the slightest mention of a penalty being applied.

Neither should there be here. Apart from the embarrassment, what did he do wrong??

With Skaife, he pulled into the Team BOC/Brad Jones Racing bay as The BJR red race suits looked very similar to the red Holden Racing Team suits.

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by csirl

Should Button have received a drive thru penalty for stopping in the wrong pit?

What if one of the RB drivers had been left queing and lost the race as a result? What if a mechanic had been hit by the car because the RB team werent expecting a car to arrive right then?

i guess that when it happens then the appropiate action will be taken, untill then i guess its racing as normal

[newlaprecord]

talking of what ifs, what if it happend to D'Ambrosio and the HRT pit, how long this thread would be

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

talking of what ifs, what if it happend to D'Ambrosio and the HRT pit, how long this thread would be

It's still shorter than an HRT lap!

[andy_b]

Originally Posted by gregc

Andy Blackmore has just posted this on Facebook (with permission to repost) - genius...

I still know a couple of mechanics, so it will be going that way LOL