[Team] The state of play

[strider]

This is one of those threads that could either grind to a halt immediately or run throughout the season as the situation changes, as it undoubtedly will.

I’m talking about the relative competiveness of the teams and how the pecking order stands.

You have to put Red Bull at the top, but the KERS system is potentially their Achilles heel and they have to get that sorted.

McLaren are right there, but it’s ironic that the change in the exhaust system, which made a night and day difference between their pre-season form and the races we have had so far, was effectively a Red Bull copy.

Ferrari has gone the other way. Looking good in testing, but being frankly disappointing since the season began. It was good to see Massa back to his old form in China, but Alonso is going to have to find quite a bit extra if he is going to challenge for the title. But he did it last year, so who’s to say he can’t do it again in 2011?

Renault has probably been the most consistent team. They looked good in testing and they have performed well in the races. But every time they do well I think of Robert Kubica and it’s very sad.

Mercedes came forward enormously in China and, for me, round off the top five teams at present. There was a period in the last race when I really thought Rosberg might pull off his maiden win or at least get a podium, but then they had to ease back to conserve fuel. Someone can’t have done the sums right.

[Super Hans]

As I understand it, Ferrari's new front-wing has damaged their pace and they aren't sure how. One of those 'Works in simulation, fails on-track' things. Once they get on top of it, I can see Alonso fighting for wins.

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

One of those 'Works in simulation, fails on-track' things.

AKA the 'Nick Wirth Paradox'

i can see ferrari getting right back up there, they are not that far off the front in relative terms and will claw that back as soon as the european season gets under way.

I worry for williams this year, pre season was full of optimism for the year ahead, whereas the race results have not been good (can you even call them results?) and worryingly they are already talking of design team shakeups and sam michael already suggests he might be out of there by the end of the season. I hope they can turn it around.

[ralf fan]

The best driver (Hamilton/Alonso) isn't in the best car (Red Bull). However Red Bull are far too ahead for this to matter. Vettel is a fantastically quick driver who is great from driving from out front especially.

[chillibowl]

i like to believe Sauber have an opportunity to challenge Mercedes for a place in the top 5...at least in the short term.

despite their OZ DQ and the natural growing pains you get with a rookie driver (regardless of how talented), Sauber have the pace to continue to make it into Q3 with both their drivers...that alone should make them part of the top 5 conversation. certainly they are the best of the rest so far.

the obvious problem is that they dont have the same funds at their disposal and will most likely lose out in the development race over the season.

i know its early days but at what point does the talk about Kamui deserving a seat with a bigger team start?

[stripedcat]

Yeah I think you summed it up pretty well, Strider. Red Bull at the top, McLaren second, Renault third, Ferrari fourth and Mercedes in fifth. I agree with you, that Ferrari by the mid season will be fighting for wins, much like last year. I do think that once the Red Bull gets the KERS working they are going to be very hard to catch them. I still have my fingers crossed for Mercedes taking a win this season.

As for Williams, well it doesn't look good. I want them to rediscover some of their winning form, but sadly it doesn't seem to be happening. I don't know if an engine change(maybe to Renault or Mercedes) would be a step forward? Plus changing the tech team? It still doesn't seem likely that Williams are going to be a competitive team. It does look likely that Sam Michaels could be leaving by the end of the season.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i like to believe Sauber have an opportunity to challenge Mercedes for a place in the top 5...at least in the short term.

despite their OZ DQ and the natural growing pains you get with a rookie driver (regardless of how talented), Sauber have the pace to continue to make it into Q3 with both their drivers...that alone should make them part of the top 5 conversation. certainly they are the best of the rest so far.

I have to agree there, quite frankly I'd probably put Kobayashi and Perez in 2011 on a par with Rosberg and Schumacher in 2011 at least.

the obvious problem is that they dont have the same funds at their disposal and will most likely lose out in the development race over the season.

They do have James Key though, he is good at turning things around.

i know its early days but at what point does the talk about Kamui deserving a seat with a bigger team start?

Half way through last year.

[strider]

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

I worry for williams this year, pre season was full of optimism for the year ahead, whereas the race results have not been good (can you even call them results?) and worryingly they are already talking of design team shakeups and sam michael already suggests he might be out of there by the end of the season. I hope they can turn it around.

I've always been a a fan of Team Willy, but it isn't really the same any longer is it? Patrick Head is effectively packing his bags and of necessity Frank Williams is less involved than he once was.

For me, Sam Michael has been a disappointment since he first arrived. Mark Webber was there then and the story went that they came from the same town in Australia and would get on famously, but it didn't happen. If anything the opposite.

I can't help but remember a comment on autosport.com after the first day of testing. It said that Rubens couldn't disguise his disappointment with the car. He's made more positive comments since then, but that's the kind of guy he is.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by strider

......I can't help but remember a comment on autosport.com after the first day of testing. It said that Rubens couldn't disguise his disappointment with the car. He's made more positive comments since then, but that's the kind of guy he is.

Might be that the car got better since Rubens stated his disappointment and because of that his comments became more positive. But this insists that the car was even worse than it is now which is almost unthinkable.

[chunterer]

There's little doubt something needs to give on the engineering side. Sam Michael has always been a highly ambitoous bloke but he hasn't really cut it at a senior technical engineering level has he?

He might be better off as a Head of Race Engineering not a Technical Director.

Thing is the outfit's still probably got some of the best facilities, toolsand people in the business but isn't (or can't) making the best of them at the moment.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

The best driver (Hamilton/Alonso) isn't in the best car (Red Bull)

Each to their own as that's what makes this forum what it is, but i believe that the best driver is in the best car

[strider]

Here's what Peter Sauber has to say about his pair of drivers: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90903

And here's Norbert Haug singing the praises of Paul di Resta: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90881
He has rather put Adrian Sutil in the shade.

[Marbot]

I think that things can change around quite drastically for many teams when the European races begin. Many teams that aren't doing so well now will have updates that may spring a surprise.

Paul di Resta has been the driver of the season so far IMO. You have to wonder how he would go in a much better car. There are others out there too. Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso had better watch out.

[chunterer]

Di Resta just pips Perez so far in my book. Sergio is arguably just the quicker driver but Paul has been superbly consistent. The 'old head on young shoulders' cliche springs to mind.

Perez drove ace in Melbourne but we already knew he could cut some moves if required and he showed evidence of that last weekend, if ultimately they didn't pay off.

That racey move on Webber early in the race to re-take him over a course of two or three turns was like one of those classic card marking moments that future greats throw up every so often.

[strider]

You've said everything there, chunterer, that I would want to say so I can only agree! I think Sergio may ultimately prove to be the better, but it's hard to tell right now because I think the Sauber is better than the Force India.

What's interesting is that you have five teams at the top, but then you have another handful of teams jostling each other not far behind. I'm expecting Lotus to improve further.

Meanwhile Virgin have enrolled the services of Pat Symonds to help them. They certainly need someone to sort them out because they've been, relatively speaking, the disappointment of the season so far for me.

[chunterer]

Someone like Pat Symonds on board can only be good for development.

I wonder if they'll be quickly seeking the hire of someone elses wind tunnel.......

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I wonder if they'll be quickly seeking the hire of someone elses wind tunnel.......

I think that they will be sharing one with HRT.

[Knowlesy]

What I don't understand about the Ferrari front wing was that it worked well pre-season. Was it a completely different spec wing they brought to Australia? And if so why not revert to the winter version?

I think Alonso has been very scrappy this year. I find it odd that, since Hamilton rattled his cage in 2007, he has been hampered by inconsistency at the beginning of every season ever since. I used to think him the best driver but I just struggle with that nowadays. Where is the guy that destroyed TGF with flawless perfection?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I think Alonso has been very scrappy this year. I find it odd that, since Hamilton rattled his cage in 2007, he has been hampered by inconsistency at the beginning of every season ever since. I used to think him the best driver but I just struggle with that nowadays. Where is the guy that destroyed TGF with flawless perfection?

I'm with you all the way there Knowlesy..... I have never liked the guy particularly but back in his championship years I have to admit that even I respected his talent. Now I just think of him as very overrated. I still rate his sadly in F1 no more Ferrari predecessor higher.

[strider]

Originally Posted by E.B

I still rate his sadly in F1 no more Ferrari predecessor higher.

I agree and have changed my avatar as a small tribute.

[Knowlesy]

Bradley Cooper?

[strider]

Changed it again to the new long-haired, Red Bull look.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by E.B

I'm with you all the way there Knowlesy..... I have never liked the guy particularly but back in his championship years I have to admit that even I respected his talent. Now I just think of him as very overrated. I still rate his sadly in F1 no more Ferrari predecessor higher.

Erm............. come on man, that was a tongue in cheek comment surely?!!!

Mind you he seemingly lacks that killer instinct that he had until 2006? The real Nando wouldn't have let Abu Dhabi happen last year that's for sure!

[Mr V]

Alonso is one of only three drivers who could win the title this year. He's had a very poor start but he will pull it round within the team. Wether he and Ferrari can do enough to win the title, who knows?

[Knowlesy]

Hopefully not. I condemn Ferrari to an eternity of no titles.