Racing is expensive

[lovef1]

Dear forum members,

I don't know if I'm on the right forum, or there has been a thread similar to this (if that's the case I'm sorry), but I was wondering, how do you guys come up with the money to go racing, and I apologize if my question is a bit too personal. I talked to a few racers at the track and they told me the amount of money they put into racing is enough to buy them a decent house. Anyways do you guys have any tips on raising some extra money or find some small sponsors? As usual thank you in advance.

[ascarracinguk]

Well for some lucky people here they have money passed down from wealthy parents, however for the vast majority we work our butts off to go racing, whether your an accountant or lawyer and have lots of disposable income to race in historics or gt racing, or do other less paid jobs, and can afford to race in 750mc, hill climbing or drag racing, there's a class out there to suit everyone's wallet.

Racing doesn't have to be expensive, I raced In karts on a budget of 2k for setup including kart, tools, trailer, race wear etc, and then raced for 3k a season which included all maintenance, entry fees, tyres etc. there are other sports such as rally cross, hill climbing, drag racing, circuit racing where you can enter a road car with a few safety improvements and go racing, entry fees forthe year are around 2k on circuits for that kind of racing, or about 500 quid for the year in drag racing, and even free in stock car racing!

So like I said, racing doesn't have to cost the earth, it's just how fast you can go with the money you've got!

[Dom]

For me i guess i'm fairly lucky that i live within my means and have a small amount of disposable income that i use for racing. I dont own a proper business and have a fairly averagely paid 9-5 job and a family to support, but you'll find plenty in the paddock that are mostly connected in the motor trade which helps at least claiming VAT back on parts and often 'sponsor' themselves. I dabble in some business ideas and save any overtime to pay for go faster parts/repairs. I dont have lots of expensive holidays or any other hobbies any more to help pay for my racing.

To keep costs down i've learnt how to be a mechanic and prepared my own cars. I buy used parts where appropriate but still run a relatively cheap and simple Fiesta which has been perfectly reliable for the last 3 years.

You can go racing for way less than the cost of a house, the single most expensive part for me is the entry fees which cost about £2k per season which is with a friendly and good value for money series. As long as the car is reliable, the only other running costs are petrol and general wear and tear and servicing.

However if fun is not enough and you want to be very competitive or at the front of the grid then thats where the real money is needed!

[Peat]

Yeah, you don't have to spend the earth to have a good time.

I race Club100 and a part season of EPEC, my year's budget is coming in around £2.5k. That £200 a month is easy enough to find on a modest salary if you cut out silly things like drinking/take aways every weekend. (Well, i still have the odd snifter from time to time...)

[MagnetON]

There are also considerably cheaper ways to be involved with motorsport, come and marshal

[midgetman]

>>>>>>connected in the motor trade which helps at least claiming VAT back on parts and often 'sponsor' themselves

These very pages are full of people wailing about what happens when the tax man finds out and clamps down on them. A couple of years back there was a chap facing a £25k tax bill. You can't "sponsor" yourself. I keep my race car purchases separate from my business expenses. Yes I have the company name on the car but the company doesn't pay for it, except by earning me taxed income! I suspect many are the same.

The bottom line is, if the drug bites and you're a true racer you'll run in the highest category you can nearly afford. If you wait until you've got enough money, you'll never do it.

Loads of people tell me "I'd love to race but I can't afford it". Well, you can but just adjust your level. Arrive'n'drive karting/owner driver karting/sprinting your road car - OK it's not "cheap" but compared to a night drinking in this area it's actually not bad!

It's actually been quite good discipline for my 15-year-old son, learning about choices. Go out clothes/CD/w.h.y buying with his mates or save his money for racing! We all have to prioritise!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

The bottom line is, if the drug bites and you're a true racer you'll run in the highest category you can nearly afford. If you wait until you've got enough money, you'll never do it.

Loads of people tell me "I'd love to race but I can't afford it". Well, you can but just adjust your level. Arrive'n'drive karting/owner driver karting/sprinting your road car - OK it's not "cheap" but compared to a night drinking in this area it's actually not bad!

It's actually been quite good discipline for my 15-year-old son, learning about choices. Go out clothes/CD/w.h.y buying with his mates or save his money for racing! We all have to prioritise!

Now thats the truth. Racing is expensive but its all relative & you can go racing just 4-5 times a year, say, & really enjoy yourself. No one says you have to race in championship & do every round. You can also just do a few events local to you (if you are lucky with where you live) so that you don't have to do overnight stays or long trips.

I tried my hand at single seaters a while back - Monoposto 1800 - in a Vauxhall Junior 16V car. I reckon its one of the best value and fastest per £ series you can get. I bought the car for £4500 & sold it for the same about 3 years later. I used second hand F Ford tyres at £5 a corner and the engine was so robust that it didn't need a rebuild. Sure there were entry fees, I paid for someone to help me out (as I'm technically incompetent), spares, fuel, etc and I reckon it cost me about £500 per race inc repairs.

I now race in CSCC and I reckon it costs £900 per race all in, inc support (but thats for 2 drivers and 40 min races to share costs). I have only ever raced 4-6 times a season.

I can afford it because:
a) I don't have kids (the biggest saving!!!)
b) I don't go on holiday
c) I don't live in a big house and have a big mortgage
d) I don't smoke
e) my road car is 8 years old (bought second hand) & won't be renewed yet!
f) I race to enjoy myself and don't have the talent to worry about championships or points etc!

I once told someone how much it cost to race & he was shocked but in the course of the conversation he also told me that he went skiing every winter for a week & had a summer holiday somewhere in Europe, and was also driving a 2 year old Merc. Its all about choices.

[midgetman]

Yes, I reckon Alex's TKM weekend (test Saturday, race Sunday) costs about £150 all-in, and that includes a small budget for the minor little breakdowns 100cc karts always have. If I go out with my mates once a week it costs twenty five quid or so a time so allow £100 a month, Sky TV for the F1 is £40, shazam that's Alex's karting paid for.

Holidays? Won't see any change from a grand a head will you? That's my budget for the 360. Oh and I don't smoke.

You don't have to have an income that supports a 2 year old Merc, a few lifestyle changes on ordinary pay and you're indoor karting - or Club 100 - or hillclimbing - having FUN!

[terence]

OT I know but have you many cars for tomorrow at Snett Andy?

[andy97]

Terry, last I heard there was still some spaces but still well over a hundred turning up i think.

[formerf1champ]

Racing is expensive? Also, water makes you wet. Fire burns/heats! Isn't there an equivalent to autocross, khanacross, motorkhana? (one at a time on a marked dirt/tarmac course) Where you can join a car club and compete in something that doesn't cost four figures? It's only a little more expensive than golf. I dont know if they'd let you, but I'd join a car club even before getting a car and take it from there. I wish I did that as a teenager.

Originally Posted by midgetman

The bottom line is, if the drug bites and you're a true racer you'll run in the highest category you can nearly afford. If you wait until you've got enough money, you'll never do it.

I would advise to go the lowest possible catergory. Only because it's always a certain amount to compete, then extra if you want to try and win. There's nothing like winning!

Originally Posted by MagnetON

There are also considerably cheaper ways to be involved with motorsport, come and marshal

Marshalling? It's like taking a desperately starving man to a buffet to only watch other people eat! Aside from the possiblity of free GP entry (not definitely), I've found marshalling to be a huge tease.

Originally Posted by andy97

f) I race to enjoy myself and don't have the talent to worry about championships or points etc!

That's a shame, keep trying though.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Marshalling? It's like taking a desperately starving man to a buffet to only watch other people eat! Aside from the possiblity of free GP entry (not definitely), I've found marshalling to be a huge tease.

Yes but it has the advantages of having the unfortunate situation of watching expensive things going crunch and not having to worry about paying for the repair bill!

I've been marshalling for years and racing for the past few, there are days where I can think of nothing better than to go racing, the feeling is incredible......until the loud crunch, when I think, oh why didn't I go marshalling today instead!

[lovef1]

thanx for the advice guys... but one thing i need to point out, I live in Malaysia, where racing is synonymous with money. I believe in Europe especially the UK where racing is "affordable". I'll give you an example, I currently race karts, I have to rent the kart which cost 100 rm, the entry fee to the race which is another 100 rm... that's 200 rm, and my monthly allowance is 200 rm. I won't lie, i used my student loan to buy my racing gear, and as a result I needed to photocopy my law text books, seeing that I have no money left. Anyways, I reckon things would get considerably cheaper seeing that now I have all my gear etc. Again thank you for the advice ....

P.s I tried marshaling, and ascarr you are right, marshaling just makes me jealous of the drivers... lol....

[mountainstar]

I learned quite a few lessons over the years:

1. Find ways to increase your earning power by finding another job, getting a 2nd job, learning a trade and learning more skills in that trade, getting more formal education, so on. I realized that if I was going to work than I needed to maximize what I earned per hour, per day, etc. in order to have the disposable income to do the things I wanted.

2. Establish a savings account or money market account or some separate account as a "racing fund". Take 10%-20% of each paycheck and put it in that fund. It will grow faster than you think.

3. Prioritize your spending. Nights out on the town, vacations, video games, whatever it is, eats up money.

4. Small sponsors are likely not to happen if you are not competing regularly and have some promotional benefit to offer.

5. Also prioritize what you want to do. I have often been drawn to go rallying too, but realistically I don't have the money to do both that and circuit racing. When you have limited funds, focus on one thing.

[andy97]

One thing you will find is that racing makes you a liar - you will never really tell the truth to you family, wife, bank manager or self what it really costs!!

[Tim Falce]

I never bothered working out what it cost until someone said they thought my weekends away to Spa cost around £1800-£2K each and for that I could have a couple of weeks in Egypt or the likes. So this year I won't be doing Spa and I doubt I'll get to have any sort of holiday anyway. I sometimes wish people would keep their thoughts to themselves.

[midgetman]

>>I'll give you an example, I currently race karts, I have to rent the kart which cost 100 rm, the entry fee to the race which is another 100 rm... that's 200 rm, and my monthly allowance is 200 rm.

Yeah, the costs suck but like M-Star says - extra income and prioritise, prioritise, prioritise. You're no different to young lads here.

Also remember that sometimes the stuff you really *want* to do (racing) just *has* to be sat on the shelf while the things we *must* do (learning) takes precedence so you get the income to race in the future. It works on all levels. e.g. I *want* to be at home preparing my race car, but I *must* be at work earning the money to pay for it.

You've got loads of years to come, God willing, you don't have to do it all today but if you have an income plan and a savings account it'll come sooner than you think. We're all really old here, and I think many of us would swap our racing for the chance to be a young student again so count your blessings!

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by andy97

One thing you will find is that racing makes you a liar - you will never really tell the truth to you family, wife, bank manager or self what it really costs!!

so true! I even lie to myself lol....it's just easier that way!

[GORDON STREETER]

My accountant was always asking me how the hell I used sooo many tyres and fuel/oil changes/brake pads in a year on my Transit van expenses !
It also helps if you don't have kids or a mortgage and a wife that earns more than you

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by andy97

One thing you will find is that racing makes you a liar - you will never really tell the truth to you family, wife, bank manager or self what it really costs!!

My wife spends more on her horses than I do on racing and I've never felt the urge to justify anything I do to any bank or manager.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Yeah, the costs suck but like M-Star says - extra income and prioritise, prioritise, prioritise. You're no different to young lads here.

Also remember that sometimes the stuff you really *want* to do (racing) just *has* to be sat on the shelf while the things we *must* do (learning) takes precedence so you get the income to race in the future. It works on all levels. e.g. I *want* to be at home preparing my race car, but I *must* be at work earning the money to pay for it.

You've got loads of years to come, God willing, you don't have to do it all today but if you have an income plan and a savings account it'll come sooner than you think. We're all really old here, and I think many of us would swap our racing for the chance to be a young student again so count your blessings!

I have to say in my 20's, I didn't focus enough on getting additional skills and finding or focusing on ways to grow my income significantly, so I was flogging away at things and then would go through periods of financial exhaustion.

And don't use a credit card or other credit to go racing unless you are making a capital investment in a piece of equipment worth something. I was never really in that much debt(around $10K) but still it's something you have to pay off with interest. Not worth it.

It all worked out ok, some of the things I did in my 20's helped me move into my current career in driving(which is what I always wanted to begin with), however if I could do it all over again, there are aspects of it I would have accelerated or pushed forward and wouldn't have allowed myself to get spread so thin in.

I would also decide exactly what you want to do, for example running an older Formula Ford and then start asking around to form a budget in terms of capital investments you would need to make in equipment and what it is going to cost you to do a race weekend. Also I'd compare what it would cost to do an "arrive and drive" with an existing team. But in any case, work out what your costs are going to be, add another 20% to be on the safe side and then figure out how you are going to fund that.

I had a friend that really wanted to rally as his life long dream. He bought an existing rally car for $6,000. It needed a few things here and there which added about $5,000. Then he needed safety gear, another $1000. On the first event the engine exploded, so a new engine was needed and other work as well, so that ended up to $10k or more. Then he needed a tow vehicle and trailer, another $9,000. Then there were thousands of dollars in spare parts, wheels, tires, etc. Then some money for the mechanics to fix the thing. Then $1300 in entry fees per event. Hotels, gas, food, etc. Then he decided he needed a box truck instead of a trailer, so that was $10K. And then he crashed big on his 4th event so he needed a total front end rebuild.

So he did 4 rallies at what cost I do not even want to calculate. He sold the car and spares for around $13k. He bought another for $12K(which was a great deal) and it sinking another $10K into it.

Stuff adds up and my friend got way in over his head beyond what he ever thought it would be. He did manage to get a couple of local sponsors to chip in a couple of hundred bucks each and managed to get some free decal work and some discounted tires. He also got help to the tune of a couple of hundred bucks from a manufacturer contingency fund. None of that anywhere near off sets his costs.

Money is the fuel of motor racing.

Contrast that to the other sports I do. My mountain bike was a $1500 race bike given to me for free by my brother in law and I spent $300 on it refurbing it. I ride it at least 700-800 miles a year. My kayak cost me $700 with all bits and pieces. Other than gas for the car to drive to the lake or river and $10 a year for a state boating permit, that's it for that. Competition shooting you can enter a match for $10 to $20 and 2 boxes of .22LR competition ammo costs $10. Some matches are postal matches with backing targets so you don't even have to travel anywhere.

Big difference between all that and motor racing.

[greenamex2]

The house, wife and kids are all more expensive....and not nearly so much fun.

You just have to prioritise based on your current personal circumstances. I have just taken a pay drop AND had to bail out my wifes credit card (again) so am have to budget. If I need to buy something for the car I now have to miss a race.

[Fan]

Mountainstar makes some very good points. I moved the UK aged 19 and worked 3 jobs (day job, night job, weekend job) raising money to race in F/Ford. I have only vague memories of my 20's as I spent most of it working and can hardly remember the racing that I did do!

Some sound advice is to get a good education and then a good job. I think that having a solid base to work from is key, so that if the racing does stop you're not left in a position whereby you don't have a career.

Another key point is where you spend your hard earned money. I was very focused on "moving up the ladder" at any cost which was a huge mistake. I've raced some real death traps in my time and in extreme cases I was happy to go home alive. A trip to Japan to test at Suzuka "for free" resulted in 14 laps with a car that kept breaking. A year in F3 can only be summed up as a disaster when the team lost it's main sponsor. I tried to improve things with the help of HSBC (big mistake number 2) and at the end of the day you're just throwing good money after bad.

I now refuse to pay for my racing, so any time that I do dedicate to racing is spent looking for sponsors. A few deals have come off but one thing that I have learned is that your racing C.V. pretty much counts for zero when looking for sponsors. Every company that I speak to is looking for B2B or at least potential partners/business in the series.

I spoke to Danny Sullivan a few years ago and the main thing he said to me was: Business to business deals make the wheels go around. Don't ask people for money in return for a sticker on the car/hospitality, etc. There is zero return for a company, unless you're in F1, Indy 500, etc. All my deals are B2B and therefore tend to be long term.

[leonidas]

It's also worth saying that there are a lot of different forms of motorsport that are a lot of fun and give you meaningful experience without costing a fortune.

Rallycross - stock hatch car 2000 GBP, meeting with 4 races around 200 GBP, on event petrol and tyres negligible.

Brisca F2 - car around 5000 GBP, entrance fees negligible, on event costs low providing you don't have anything too serious, go racing every weekend.

Autograss - Class one car around 1000 GBP, entry/membership fee negligible - mum, dad and kids can all have a days racing.

Historic rallying - standard car from around 2000 GBP, day long event for less than 200 GBP.

Some people spend more than this on golf!

It saddens me that many young people seem to watch the major series on TV, hear that so-and-so is spending 200,000 GBP a season to come 10th in British Formula Ford and give up all hope of competing. There is life beyond the big series...

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Contrast that to the other sports I do. My mountain bike was a $1500 race bike given to me for free by my brother in law and I spent $300 on it refurbing it. I ride it at least 700-800 miles a year. My kayak cost me $700 with all bits and pieces. Other than gas for the car to drive to the lake or river and $10 a year for a state boating permit, that's it for that. Competition shooting you can enter a match for $10 to $20 and 2 boxes of .22LR competition ammo costs $10. Some matches are postal matches with backing targets so you don't even have to travel anywhere.

Big difference between all that and motor racing.

Would much rather go racing...

Originally Posted by Fan

. Every company that I speak to is looking for B2B or at least potential partners/business in the series.

I spoke to Danny Sullivan a few years ago and the main thing he said to me was: Business to business deals make the wheels go around. Don't ask people for money in return for a sticker on the car/hospitality, etc. There is zero return for a company, unless you're in F1, Indy 500, etc. All my deals are B2B and therefore tend to be long term.

Can you, or anyone else, explain, to me at least, what is a business to business deal?

Originally Posted by leonidas

It's also worth saying that there are a lot of different forms of motorsport that are a lot of fun and give you meaningful experience without costing a fortune.

It saddens me that many young people seem to watch the major series on TV, hear that so-and-so is spending 200,000 GBP a season to come 10th in British Formula Ford and give up all hope of competing. There is life beyond the big series...

I came up with the conclusion (years ago, at the realisation that the costs of some motorsport comps are comparable to golf) that the worst way to be introduced to motorsport is through TV and F1! It's like seeing Mars, in a clear night sky in the middle of a desert in Africa, and thinking "I'll just jump on a plane and go over there".