Kerbs (and easy run-off areas)

[Born Racer]

This is nothing to do with the Hamilton incident, so let's leave this out of here. I was planning on making this thread ever since yesterday. But this has been bugging me in racing generally and not just F1 for a while.

What is the point of kerbs if they don't slow drivers down? They have become an extension of the race track. They should have grass next to the track, not these kerbs. I suppose they kindly mark out the edge for the drivers with bright red and white, but I'm not sure this should be something offered to the drivers.

The run-off areas are also silly, and present potential problems like the aforementioned Hamilton debate.

I propose getting rid of kerbs, or at least actually making them slow drivers down. In karting, many circuits have kerbs which are not quicker to run on than the track next to them. This should be the way with F1, or perhaps preferably, just do away with them like I said and have grass there.

[Knowlesy]

High kerbs are unsafe, innit. They were the best way though.

[Born Racer]

The problem with high kerbs though that might damage a car is that damaging a car then becomes akin to having a barrier there (an accepted challenge of street circuits).

Grass seems the ideal interim solution. You get punished by going off the circuit without (necessarily, obviously sometimes you will) damaging anything.

[Peter Mallett]

Then of course you'll need catch fencing.

[Adam43]

Concrete walls and spikes.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Concrete walls and spikes.

I can see how that would concentrate the mind!

[Knowlesy]

Yes, high kerbs would damage a car, but then the idea would be to not hit them. They basically necessitate accurate driving.

I'm sure they can be made to work somehow, but they are not the easy option.

[JeremySmith]

If there was a better solution to not using kerbs I am sure they would be using it...At the kind of speeds these cars are moving you need a visual aid for the drivers to be able to judge how far they can hang the car out..If you hit them too hard you damage the car..

I am no expert on the subject but that is my two cents...

[Sodemo]

Everyone loves 20 acre tarmac run offs...

[Paddockman]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Concrete walls and spikes.

Some trees as well!

[Ogami musashi]

I would agree with you that run off areas are maybe forgivable but i do prefer this (remeber in most case it is still a "run off" that is, you go wide) than seeing cars that go that fast in walls or spining sunddenly in the middle of a battle.


As for Kerbs, this does not disturb me. That's true in karting we can't ride the full kerbs and that exit kerbs do really slow you down but it is a matter of height of the kerbs/height of the tyre.

With a race car it would be no so safe to do high kerbs.

To me it makes things interesting, kerbs do change the dynamics, there's a risk of loosing control, but at the same time they offer an extra width, that's part of the racing with cars.

I'm not for a unique kind of racing, so, that my kart doesn't like to ride kerbs is okay for me, in a sports car or single seater if they can...why not?

You could argue on a lot of things like that, why most karts have no gear boxes?? this frees the driver from gears control, why sports car are autorized to make contact, because of their bodywork it allows the driver to be less fine on the driving and more raw etc...

I don't think there's one form of racing.

[Born Racer]

you need a visual aid for the drivers to be able to judge how far they can hang the car out

Does the green of the grass or the whatever colour gravel is of the gravel trap not provide this?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Does the green of the grass or the whatever colour gravel is of the gravel trap not provide this?

I have a feeling that the vertical painted lines seen at high speed do a far better job. The racing drivers amongst us should be able to fill in the details on this subject..

The large run offs which are being used these days I do not care for at all...

[Pingguest]

High kerbs are dangerous, as mentioned above. I remember drivers spinning at Adelaide and they went into the air due to the high kerbs.

Talking about the massive tarmac run-offs, I think we should get rid of them. They don't really slow down as long as the driver goes straight or a bit wide. Gravel traps should be better.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Concrete walls and spikes.

Agreed !

Electric fences would be good too, they would provide immediate punishment to the driver (and car) without waiting for "under investigation" from the steward.

[Alan Raine]

The Massa, Kubica dust up, in Japan, at the end of last season showed how stupid these run off areas are. If you run out of road, keep on going. Although I enjoyed it - 2 racers hammering it out, thoroughly entertaining.

Looking at that, what did Hamilton do wrong today?

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

The Massa, Kubica dust up, in Japan, at the end of last season showed how stupid these run off areas are. If you run out of road, keep on going. Although I enjoyed it - 2 racers hammering it out, thoroughly entertaining.

Looking at that, what did Hamilton do wrong today?

He cut a corner and gained an advantage. Shoulda backed off and let Vettel back past, wouldn't have gotten penalised then.

[RaiseYourFist]

They make the races more dramatic and increase the spectacle for the spectators, also show how close to the edge the cars and drivers are.

[MrTTraces]

I like the idea of electric fences, but what about razer wire or large bear traps?

[Bononi]

Anything to keep them on the track is welcome...

[craigd]

Hell, why not go the whole hog and have a nice trench of lava around the track edge. That would work a treat I think. It would help in other areas too such as spectator safety; no worrying about debris flying into stands - if a driver screws up they just sink without trace and no more needs to be said. Turn F1 into Mario Kart, after all when has there ever been a dull MK race!?

Mmm i'm now imagining Felipe today unleashing a cunning red shell to smash Kimi's exhaust, muhah!!! Sigh i've gone too far.

p.s. am I the only one imagining Lewis smashing holes into the wall of a hotel room tonight...?

(seriously though, kerbs are ok, it's the get-out-of-jail-free-card tarmac run-off areas that suck)

[Sodemo]

Run off area > Gravel > Lion pit...

[Purist]

Well, if high curbs are bad, how about those metal half-doughnuts sticking out on the inside of the curbs like they had at Mexico City and Rouen in the 1960s?

They don't need those curbs for reference; the open wheelers do just fine without them at Cleveland (now there's a circuit with NO sight references).

[Marbot]

Max has said that the run-off areas,although safe,are not in the spirit of racing.He is,as we know,looking into other forms of punishment.

[Born Racer]

I don't think this question of having a specially visible outline to the track is an issue. Drivers should be able to see where the black stuff is, and even if kerbs help them locate it, it's not the kind of assistance they should really require. There's all kinds of challenges that shouldn't be made easier.