How many Volvo S60 S2000 cars are there?

[the interpreter]

At present it looks like there will only be two Volvo's racing in the world of S2000 in 2007, with SportA withdrawing their Volvo entry from the Danish Touringcar Championship.

Does anyone know how many Volvo S60 S2000 cars have been built?

As I understand it there were three built originally by Prodrive, and Flash Engineering built a fourth from a test car or S60 Challenge car. Then I believe that Polestar Racing built two new cars for STCC season 2006 - is this correct???

Therefore, how many S60 S2000s are there - and would it be possible for there to be a Volvo presence in the BTCC, ITCC and the German S2000 series in 2007? This is a dream situation - but is it possible?

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by the interpreter

As I understand it there were three built originally by Prodrive, and Flash Engineering built a fourth from a test car or S60 Challenge car. Then I believe that Polestar Racing built two new cars for STCC season 2006 - is this correct???

I belive that is correct, I dont know anything about the Danish cars however, if they are old Prodrive cars or not.

Originally Posted by the interpreter

Therefore, how many S60 S2000s are there - and would it be possible for there to be a Volvo presence in the BTCC, ITCC and the German S2000 series in 2007? This is a dream situation - but is it possible?

Well the cars are getting really old and out of date and really wasnt competetive in STCC this year even tho they homoligated the new S60 cars they built that was supposed to have a better chassie. I would be very suprised if anyone decides to run them outside Sweden, theres far better cars available, like Audi A4 for example, if you want anyting from Sweden.

A little OT, but what happend to the new S40 cars? Didnt they FIA homoligate them like 2 years ago? About time to do anythinhg usefull with it and try to get back to STCC winning form?

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Porsche fan - Dahlgren was one of three drivers to win a race this year, so it's definantly competitive

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Porsche fan - Dahlgren was one of three drivers to win a race this year, so it's definantly competitive

True, but he was still only 6th in the points, only half the points of the winner Björk. Sure the car was fast at some races, like Falkenberg for example, but I think it was more due to the driver then the car and also the opposition often hit trouble and so on. At Falkenberg he was 2nd but many of his competitors for the win hit trouble, like Ekblom and Göransson that both was faster got gearbox problems, the two WCR drivers Rudholm and Hoisman both qualifyied at the back and also them hitting problems. I still rate Dahlgren as one of the very best drivers in STCC, as fast if not faster then Göransson, Björk and Ekblom, the car however is not near as fast as the Audi and BMW. As proven by Storckenfeldt, great driver with an international Formula career, just like Göransson and Dahlgren, his first year in Touringcars and what a disaster... Only 4 points, hes a way better driver then that.
BTW, remember the Mantorp race? What did the two Volvo drivers do in the first corner? Kinda sums up how the season has been for them.

Would be fun to hear what Meissner has to say about the S60.

[FIRE]

I never understood why they used the bigger S60 instead of the S40.

[Ola]

I'll get back to you guys on this subject, just got back from a race and I'm exhausted. But I think I can dig out some numbers

[JMeissner]

And that was me in the post above

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I never understood why they used the bigger S60 instead of the S40.

If I'm not all wrong it was because the original S2000 S60 was built back in 2002, when the old S40 was on the way out. I guess when Polestar built new cars for this season they used the S60 because they had more experience with it?

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

If I'm not all wrong it was because the original S2000 S60 was built back in 2002, when the old S40 was on the way out. I guess when Polestar built new cars for this season they used the S60 because they had more experience with it?

As far as I know the 06 Polestar S60s arent new in any way, they are still very much based on the old Prodrive cars but they needed to re homoligate the cars so they could make bigger changes to the chassie, exactly what they did I dont know, but it was supposed to improve the handling (obviously).
Again, I'm sure Johan Meissner knows more about this.

[Ola]

Volvo S60 will probably be sold for another 3-4 years so there is still a commercial reason to race it and develop it.

To change to a brand new S40 would probably take something like 1 ½ - 2 seasons to get it to the level of the S60 today and another season to make it really competitive. That's three years ... and S40 maybe will be sold for another 5-6 years. In addition to that, there is a question mark surrounding the S2000 rules and how long they will be used.

So I'd say there is a bigger risk building a brand new S40 S2000 than keep developing the S60 which can still be competitive if the resources are put behind it.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by Ola

Volvo S60 will probably be sold for another 3-4 years so there is still a commercial reason to race it and develop it.So I'd say there is a bigger risk building a brand new S40 S2000 than keep developing the S60 which can still be competitive if the resources are put behind it.

Of course, Volvo obviously didn't see any commercial reason to race the S60 as they stopped officially racing 4 years ago. Thankfully, at least they see the a semi-reason to race in the STCC.

[the interpreter]

Ola - what is the uncertainty around S2000 rules?

Did everybody see on fiawtcc.com that Polestar Racing Volvo are considering a limited WTCC campaign in 2007 ???? This is great news. We should all encourage the team to enter the European races of the WTCC !!!!

[the interpreter]

so ... did we get a resolution to my original question? How many S2000 Volvo S60s have been constructed since 2002???

If there are more than two then it would be great to see some race in the ITCC and DTC in 2007 - maybe even the BTCC!!!

[JMeissner]

Finally I've gotten som answers:

6

6 cars have been constructed since 2002.

In 2002 firstly one prototype was build according to the first version of S2000. (The first S2000 version was changed due to BMW) Then two cars were build according to the modified S2000 rules which are in place now.
So, three cars in 2002.

Then no other cars were build until 2005 when Flash Engineering build two more cars on their own. The first three cars were build by Prodrive.

That makes a total of 6 cars. But only four cars are, according to my information, alive today. Three cars are in Sweden with Polestar and one is in Denmark. As for the remaining two their whereabouts are a bit more unclear, most likely destroyed/dismantled after crashes.

[the interpreter]

Thanks JMeissner.

That makes sense, as there is a photo on the homepage of Polestar that shows three race-liveried cars. I wonder if Volvo would ever consider running three cars in STCC, or have a dedicated WTCC car?

[Ola]

Wow, only four cars? In other words - two heavy crashes during a season could spell the end of the Volvo S60 S2000 ... One huge crash would have serious effects also.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by the interpreter

That makes sense, as there is a photo on the homepage of Polestar that shows three race-liveried cars. I wonder if Volvo would ever consider running three cars in STCC, or have a dedicated WTCC car?

Unfortunately, Polestar have been barely able to make it onto the starting grid every year due to late and small support from Volvo? A 3 car entry seems pretty unlikely unless some big name sponsor comes on board.

[Ola]

Originally Posted by kmchow

Unfortunately, Polestar have been barely able to make it onto the starting grid every year due to late and small support from Volvo? A 3 car entry seems pretty unlikely unless some big name sponsor comes on board.

Well that is not really true. As long as Volvo have supported the program, which they have every season so far, there has never been a problem with Polestar being able to make the grid.

They have had resources enough for a two-car assault. Volvos budget have varied depending on how big/small STCC have been. But now that STCC is growing again, Volvo is putting more money into the racingbudget.

This year, Polestar is said to operate with one of their largest STCC-budgets ever thanks to Volvo increasing their effort.

I think the main problem is that the S60 has been around for a few seasons now, and is probably near the end of its development cycle and competing against cars like BMW 320 Si which are new and have a bigger development potential.

It will be interesting to see if they can find more speed in their S60's. Last year they looked a bit slow compared to the Audis and BMW. Their big gain lst year was their pitstops in the beginning of the season which was superior to the others. That gained them quite a lot track positions.

[Sodemo]

I thought joining the WTCC every team and manufacturer becomes a member of the "moaning club", so that if your car isn't competitive, you just "moan" a little (or a lot) and then the rules get changed in your favour. I know both BMW and Alfa play this game a lot.

The point being, that even if your car was miles off the pace, you could probably join, then once you find you aren't performing, you start to cry and whinge a bit, then the rules get altered, usually in the form of adjusting weight allowance.

One wonders why anyone actually bothers to develop their cars.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by Ola

Well that is not really true. As long as Volvo have supported the program, which they have every season so far, there has never been a problem with Polestar being able to make the grid.

They have had resources enough for a two-car assault. Volvos budget have varied depending on how big/small STCC have been. But now that STCC is growing again, Volvo is putting more money into the racingbudget.

But I recall strongly last year that the budget was announced very late in the season? I should look up the touringcartimes archive.

Originally Posted by Ola

This year, Polestar is said to operate with one of their largest STCC-budgets ever thanks to Volvo increasing their effort.

Wow, that is a very big shock to me. I guess Volvo wants a championship before the S60 is officially retired/replaecd.

Originally Posted by Ola

I think the main problem is that the S60 has been around for a few seasons now, and is probably near the end of its development cycle and competing against cars like BMW 320 Si which are new and have a bigger development potential.

Time for the S40 to carry the Volvo flag then!

Originally Posted by Ola

It will be interesting to see if they can find more speed in their S60's. Last year they looked a bit slow compared to the Audis and BMW. Their big gain lst year was their pitstops in the beginning of the season which was superior to the others. That gained them quite a lot track positions.

I own a Volvo so I'm obviously a big Volvo fan, but didn't the S60s always seem to struggle against the BMW/Alfa even way back in '00? I forget if it was the engine or suspension that gave it a lack of grip that was the problem? IIRC, the engines always overheated and hp gradually declined as race continued?

[Mike_Wooshy]

IF Volvo were going to do an manufacture backed assault on touring cars, why not go the C30 route ???

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by Mike_Wooshy

IF Volvo were going to do an manufacture backed assault on touring cars, why not go the C30 route ???

Since the C30 is just a the beginning of it's sales cycle, that would be a good marketing move. But as a stubborn/narrow minded 4 dr saloon guy, I'd rather see the S60 or S40!

[FIRE]

The C30 is a 3 door car, which isn't allowed. Will there be a 5 door C30 in the near future?

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by FIRE

The C30 is a 3 door car, which isn't allowed. Will there be a 5 door C30 in the near future?

The STCC Astra is a three door S2000 car

[werner]

It is possible that Opel have asked for (and got) dispensation from that rule, either by the Fia or by the Swedisch autosportorganisation. Honda for instance has had one in the past with the old Civic type-R.
Also Chevy and Seat have some dispensations on other aspects of the car.